215
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 08 Jan 2024
215 points (94.2% liked)
politics
19088 readers
1585 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Well said. And we're NEVER going to get ranked vote with Biden or the current Democrats. Voting Democrat only keeps the two party gig going longer. How long has it been now, 150 years of the same back and forth?
Unless they start to feel the need to change anything they will never do it if you keep voting for them when they act like this.
Au contraire. Ranked choice is gaining traction having been adopted in 62 jurisdictions. So change is possible right now.
https://www.rcvresources.org/where-is-rcv-used
So if you think protest voting is going to somehow snap the neo liberals out of their ideology and drag them in a more progressive direction, you're going to be in for a big disappointment.
This two party game has been going for 50 years in its current form (post civil rights era). The Democratic party hasn't fundamentally changed its tune during that time because people who run and get elected are rich and powerful enough to be isolated from any effects of fascists getting elected. They don't have to care like us peons / targets of hate.
We will (continue) make more progress by supporting efforts to change our voting methods. Eventually (and playing the long game is necessary; a single election will do nothing) rcv and similar will gain enough momentum that we will start to see viable parties appear with platforms we agree with more than the current main parties.
I really don't know what stops ranked choice voting from being a Democratic Party platform right now.
I'd feel a lot better about it becoming a reality if Joe Biden himself came up and said that's what we need to do.
What stops ranked choice from being a Democratic Party platform is that the Democratic Party has no incentive to reduce its power and neither does the Republican party
So they say they are going to do something. You know who said they were going to withdraw from Afghanistan? Democrats.
You know who did withdraw from Afghanistan? Orange Man.
If you trust the guy currently bypassing congress so he can commit genocide instead of to fix the democracy, I'm not entirely sure how to convince you otherwise.
That's odd because I distinctly remember all the Trumptards complaining about how horrible the withdrawal under Biden went. You sound like the jackass who was "just asking questions" about where Obama was on 9-11.
If you think one president is going to fix democracy you're always going to be disappointed. It is much easier to wreck than to fix.
If you think Democrats losing the presidency is going to fix the Democratic party, again, disappointment will be yours.
Ranked Choice (or similar) voting is something you work on at a state level.
But I've probably already said that to you in another comment in the past when you were saying the same kinds of things.
Biden has complete powers to fix it he could apppoint more judges if he wanted to.
It's in fact far easier to fix than you believe. It's just that Genocide Joe knows that if the two party trick fails none of his cultists have any reason to vote for him anymore.
I'm talking about getting rid of the two party system. What are you talking about?
This
Biden doesn't support expanding the Supreme Court, White House says
Which would allow him to get rid of the two party system if he so desired.
Getting rid of the two party system is not something the president can unilaterally do.
Nor could we possibly expect the president or higher ups in either of the two parties to try even if they could. It really has nothing to do with the SCOTUS.
The reason we have only two viable parties is our system of voting. If we change elections at the local and state level to STAR voting, ranked choice voting, instant runoff, approval voting, or similar, other parties stand a far, far better chance.
As other parties get elected at the state level momentum builds, more jurisdictions pass such laws, and eventually we have it everywhere and for all elections.
I remember "no Obama can't do that, it would be an abuse of power" many times before Trump completely proved him wrong. The president can do a lot. A lot more than Biden is doing right now.
The only thing that Biden bypassses congress for is to send more weapons to commit genocide with.
Electing Republicans puts us even FARTHER away from ranked choice, how is that a better solution?
Then the Democrats will have no choice but to actually change something to get elected. Rewarding bad (see "Nazi style genocide") behavior is what actually puts you farther away from ranked choice.
Why is everyone always pretending that every American election will be the last one ever and the entire world is going to end if their party doesn't win.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-hannity-dictator-authoritarian-presidential-election-f27e7e9d7c13fabbe3ae7dd7f1235c72
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/trump-says-immigrants-are-poisoning-blood-country-biden-campaign-liken-rcna130141
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4310834-trump-goes-all-in-on-nazi-rhetoric-and-the-media-gives-him-another-free-pass/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/donald-trumps-january-6-media
Not really a mystery.
They literally (not figuratively, literally) said this shit in 2016. It was all Joever back then. But lo and behold, even the Republicans didn't get in line for their god emperor Trump to hand over all power. On the 6th of January all Trump had was a bunch of Facebook looneys backing him up.
July 19, 2016 If Trump wins, a coup isn’t impossible here in the U.S.
So the Republican party doesn't endorse "Nazi style genocide"? Because if the Democrats do, they sure as fuck do. Why reward the Republicans?
No stop voting for either of them.
Which functionally helps Republicans get elected. You solution is to put Republicans in power hoping they destroy enough that we have to start from scratch.
What we should be doing is primarying the fuck out of every conservative Democrat in the caucus and pushing the party left while maintaining a firewall against the GOP. Not sacrificing minorities, women, immigrants, and poor people to GOP rule to prove a point.
Doesn't matter they both commit genocide.
If you can vote for two Nazis or someone else that isn't a Nazi you don't vote for the Nazi you like most because then he will win. You vote for the person that isn't a Nazi.
And if you do this knowing your choice to vote for the person who never had a chance to win but isn't a Nazi results in the worse of the two Nazis getting elected, I think you've made a poor moral judgement AND a poor strategic one. You're helping the people who most want to harm you and allowing a significant amount of pain and suffering to happen to innocent people.
You can call joe biden a genocidal monster all you want but at the end of the day, Trump is going to hurt a lot of people that Joe Biden won't. He's going to cause more damage to the country than Joe Biden ever could and it won't be in ways that promote the positive change we both want. This is the literal definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I can't rationalize voting for genocide. I haven't voted for a Democrat for president since 2008.
Thats fine, you've supported plenty of horrible shit then. Go ahead and take a break this round and just passively endorse it.
jill stein and howie hawkins are badasses. i don't know what horrible shit you think i was passively endorsing, but i know what horrible shit democrats have been actively endorsing.
And more excuses to advocate for genocide. Even the Nazi's weren't this much in denial. A vote for Biden or Trump directly condones and support genocide. It is a direct action that shows that you voluntarily condone and support it. If you do not vote, or vote third party, you are not complicit in genocide. But if you vote for Biden or Trump then you do.
Says who? You may be able to put whatever you want on the ballot but you statistically have 2 options in a ftpt system. You can only influence the vote in one of two directions, that's it. I don't know why you won't recognize that fact. You're mathematically assisting the Republican party get elected (the far greater threat of genocide).
You're significantly more complicit for the damage the GOP does. Every extra bomb that trump drops on Gaza is on you. Direct or indirect action doesn't matter, what matters is the results.
If you can explain to me how voting third party prevents the GOP from gaining power OR how Donald Trump would be an improvement over Joe Biden I'm all ears, but besides that I think we're done here. I just hope others can understand how backwards this idea is.
only in an ethical system that says the ends justify the means. inconsequential ethics say that the ethics are in the action itself.
You talk like someone unaware of any elections since Biden.
The Democrats have lost plenty of presidential and Congressional elections. What have they changed? When have they had a "come to Jesus moment?" I can't think of any example since the southern strategy mixed up the parties. A little shift here or there but at their core they are rich, white neo-liberals.
Who is president right now