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this post was submitted on 11 Jan 2024
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I agree that they're doing it to themselves, but it's not that it's inadequate. It's that they aren't treating him like a mob boss. They are presuming he has a shred of human decency and isn't a psychopathic narcissist ready to burn it all down out of pettiness and spite.
They've prosecuted mob bosses before, so they simply need to change their paradigm.
No, they're treating him like the mob boss of a mob of millions of armed people ready to kill for him because that's what he is.
So the threat of political violence has tangible results on the rules of justice? You know that only encourages more political violence right? It's "Might makes right" with like one extra step. No one willing to die for Trump is going to care if he goes to jail now or next year they will do what they will do. But changing procedure because of them means their threats are working, which means the US Justice System, is not.
And you think there's ever been a time where it wasn't the case?
Threaten the judge presiding a case and their family and you'll never get an impartial ruling.
Bring someone like Trump to court and you better make sure you take everything slow and make sure no one can question any of your decisions, not even his supporters.
Do you honestly think he supporters care? They don't believe in truth, nothing a lawyers says or does is goning to change their mind. All the justice system is doing is showing them violence works. If thats the justice system you want then we have fundamental differences on what justice is.
Never said that's what I want, I just don't deny what reality is like.
Then 'reality' is settign the stage for bigger coups and more stochastic violence from fascist leaders. This mentality you seem to think is 'reality' is not an preventing violence, it's just kicking it down the road to the jext judge, the next governor, the next person they target. It's MORE dangerous to do what we're doing now. You're very nonchallant for someone to whom reality means violence gets you what you want.
Welcome to the real world? Go read a couple of history books and you'll soon realize that there's nothing special about what's going on at the moment.
Welp then instead of doing anything proactive, should any of that violence you don't care about makes it's way to you, I hope reading your book gives you great comfort in knowing that it was nothing special. The difference between history and the present is we can still change the prsent. You sound like you couldn't change a lightbulb with that perspective on things though. Good luck.
Tell me what you'll do to make the judge act differently towards Trump.
Im gonna threaten violence because aparently it's nothing special and always works historically.
How about you come up with an actual answer?
You complain that it's not ok and I agree, I just state the obvious, that's how society works and you tell me I'm doing nothing to change it and I'm asking you, what do YOU suggest people like you and I should do to make it so Trump faces consequences for the way he's acting in front of the judge?
First I hear of you saying violence is not okay. I thought you were on to something. If violence works and is no big deal, what's the issue now? Should we simply allow one side to dictate or fight back. No use sitting on ethical pedestals if its going to cause less ethical outcomes. Nah im liking this violence thing now. Thanks for helping me find where the real power is. Like you said welcome to reality, and im not gonna let one side dictate that reality. Stay powerful friend.
https://sh.itjust.works/comment/7456174
All that tells me is what you dont want not what you dont condone. I was just typing my way to effect change and reading it back it was just nowhere near as good as your violence idea. Pitiful in comparison really, glad you brought me around.
Let it happen. If they couldn't do it on Jan. 6th, they're not going to be able to do shit now. They're all goddamn cowards and anybody that commits violence in his name can get locked up right alongside him.
Better squash it now than let them know threats of violence get the intended result I say. Their response isn't gonna change because the case is more bulletproof, they don't believe in truth anyway.
That's a very good point I've only just really let sink in. Trump not passing go and going directly to jail will mean chaos and collateral damage, perhaps globally. Things have to be done delicately for all our sakes unfortunately.
You don't think that the current approach isn't causing chaos? He literally forged documents to send imposters into the electoral college vote. His supporters stormed the capitol - beating and killing security personnel and in one case being shot dead by special services. I don't think that jailing Trump will make these issues go away as they're too ingrained already, but I do think a harder stance needs to be taken before there's no more ground to stand on.
I do. He needs to go to jail eventually, or at least be made ineligible to run for office, or both. But if law enforcement locked him up tomorrow I think that could be immediately destabilizing of American society and the ensuing riots could cause massive loss of life and destruction, if not all out civil war, frankly. The cult of Trump is not insignificant. I live in New Zealand, and even here I encounter Trump pariahs all the time. We are living in very interesting times.
The asymmetry here is the most frustrating thing, but building things has always been harder than tearing them down. Dealing with Trump and the cult surrounding him, and the phenomena that actually made him possible in the first place (social media and the outrage and misinformation economy that has infected news media and the entire information space), is probably going to be the project that defines this decade, and that all other projects depend on for their success (like dealing with climate change). So it's one that if we fail, could set us back to the early 1900s or worse in terms of global societal cohesion. I don't think I'm being hyperbolic when I say this.
I see a lot of people (who are not Americans) speculating on the prospect of an American Civil War Part II, but I live here and I'm not seeing it. That's what Jan 6th was supposed to be, and it didn't work. The people that like him are like him- loudmouthed blowhards with no critical thinking skills. There will be no civil war. Our democracy is broken and our politics are a joke, but there's not going to be full out war over this. We eat too well.
I hope you're right. The fact all the polling data puts Trump at an almost 50% chance of being re-elected if allowed to run is not encouraging, and it's almost like the closer we get to locking him up (or out), the more popular he becomes.
His followers lack critical thinking skills. But so does the overwhelming majority of the population. That was really my point.