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this post was submitted on 13 Jan 2024
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No we won't. We didn't want Biden in the first place. The blame lies with every piece of shit who voted for him in the 2020 primaries.
Blame can be shared. If Trump wins, it's partly the DNC's fault yes, and obviously a lot of the fault is Trump's, and also it's partly yours, if you help him get elected through inaction.
Buddy, the people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries specifically to fuck over progressives and leftists knowing full well they hated his guts are at fault. You can't assign blame to me without assigning blame to them as well.
So say it now: People who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries are selfish pieces of shit.
Who are these people in your imagination? Like I know people want good things, and I hate them I'll vote for bad things on purpose argbglglbgbgg. On the Republican side that exists to a certain extent yes; I know a bunch of people who did vote for Biden and not one of them is evil like that in their motivation. In the results? Yeah, maybe.
I think Biden is a center-right rich white guy, and a progressive candidate would be way better. But I don't think people voting for him are actively trying to wreck everything; they're just misinformed. Is this idea that they did it specifically to fuck over leftists, what is it based on?
I do assign blame to them also, yes. The Democrats electing center-right corporatists who don't really look out for the working class is a huge part of the problem. But I also assign part of the blame to you, if you're (through inaction) actively helping the end of the world come to the US because you didn't get your way.
Give me one good reason to vote for Biden over all other candidates in the primaries.
"Because he's more likely to beat Trump; genuinely center-left candidates e.g. George McGovern or Jimmy Carter tend to get beat real bad in elections in the US, largely because our news media is so committedly right-wing."
I'm not saying I'm saying that, especially specifically as concerns Bernie Sanders. But people who aren't totally evil could believe that.
In other words: They intentionally voted against progressive and leftist efforts.
Those people can go fuck themselves.
No, they voted for progressive and leftist interests, just like you did. If Bernie had won they'd have voted for him, because they're mature enough to try to make things better in reality, the best that they see it, which may be flawed. At least, that's how people I know who voted for Biden in the primary behave.
Again, if you have a game-plan for how to make the Democrats a better party, then all this that I'm saying doesn't apply. If, however, your plan is just to help the Republicans until the existing Democratic establishment just wakes up one day and decides to turn away from the corporate money that's sustained them all this time, then you're helping the Republicans.
I think this conversation has started to go in circles, so I may bow out after this bit. But that's my take on it.
Buddy, your reading comprehension could use some work.
They voted against center-left candidates (progressives and leftists) in favor of a centerist like Biden. These people are fighting against us and I say again: They can go fuck themselves.
Yeah, after expecting progressives and leftists to carry garbage procorporate candidates over and over and over they fucking better.
I'm not voting for Biden again. Stop electing procorporate trash in the primaries.
Voting for someone who (in their minds) can win the general election, as opposed to voting for someone who (in their minds) will lose to Trump, is advancing leftist interests.
Would you disagree with that?
Wait... wait. I worry what you just heard was: (Something else). What I said was: Would you disagree with that exact statement?
Some of the people I'm thinking of have volunteered with the Democrats on behalf of were-too-leftist-to-get-elected candidates. And again, they'd vote for your candidate in the general election, because once the field is narrowed to two choices despite their efforts to advance a more leftist choice, they'd rather have the better option over the worse one, and they're responsible enough to try for the better of the remaining options (and then go back to working for something better than that in the future).
Sounds to me like you're fighting against them.
You can’t argue with these people. They’re going out of their way to prove a point that will ultimately get Trump elected.
I know. I'm probably going to quit after the most recent message. IDK, I wanted to try to talk some sense into the person, because it's important.
Maybe they're a shill, or maybe sincerely think they're doing something good for progressives with that stance. Either way I feel like putting the counterargument out there is a good thing to do. But yeah now it's just a merry-go-round of back and forth.
I’m half tempted to just bail on Lemmy entirely. This place is so overrun with teenaged socialists that are determined to destroy what little chance democracy has just because they don’t understand what’s going on and chose to buy into MAGA propaganda.
You and me both 😃. I unsubscribed from a bunch of the tech subs and political subs because the rate of aggressive cluelessness was so unbearable. I do like the model that Lemmy supports, but I actually switched to mbin specifically because it's able to interact with Mastodon a lot more effectively, and my observation has been that the people on Mastodon are by and large about 10 times more sensible.
I love this description! It’s perfect.