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Gonna need some ice for that burn.
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 18 Jul 2023
328 points (97.4% liked)
Don’t You Know Who I Am?
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Oh how the mighty have fallen. Vice used to be fucking based. This makes me really sad. Especially disingenuous disinformation like this. Ask someone with ADHD how life saving stimulants like adderall or similar has been for them. It’s nothing like meth, which typically ruins lives.
I don't know or care about Vice, but I've noticed that this particular issue, the comparison between Adderall and meth, seriously upsets people.
Is it that hard to believe that a substance can be therapeutic at certain doses AND easily abused at others? I get it, minor differences in chemical structure can lead to drastic differences in effects. But in this case? Doesn't seem all that different. I knew a kid in college whose cocktail of choice for a night out was six 30mg Addys + alcohol—and the biggest difference between that and meth, as far as I can tell, is the part about going out.
They are absolutely nothing alike. Adderall is ridiculously easy to get in college and that is why that kid did that. That shit gets spread around like candy on college campuses.
You can't even smoke adderall. Comparing the two is like comparing 16 fl oz of decaf (like 40mg of caffeine) to 16 fl oz of espresso (1,040 mg). They are not even close to comparable. Nobody outside of college is doing adderall for fun and the ones that are doing that in college are retarded because there are better drugs that are still readily available on campus.
Adderall is almost exactly the same as European speed. Plenty of people do it recreationally and I'd honestly say it's better than most stimulant drugs for casual use
Speed is amphetamine, adderall is amphetamine. Neither is methamphetamine.
Ok you're more nuanced comment is the one that gets my upvote.
I used to take 10mg of adderall/ritalin on weekdays and it did fuck me up really bad. In college i learned fellow ADHD students didnt take them during the year (so they where able to be their selves) and snorting them during exams getting better grades then me. Needless to say i have a really negative view of them and i consider it terrible and dangerous drugs. I admit i have often pointed out to other how similar the chemical structure is to illegal drugs like meth and i know there often sold as "poor mans cocaine" or "kiddy-coke"
But what i do not have is experience with actual speed, cocaine or meth, neither do i know people who use Meth. Your comment made me reflect that just because a drugs appears similar doesn't mean its the same or as bad. But at the same time just because meth is worse that does not mean Adderal is good.
For that last part, most definitely. The point of my argument wasn't so much to say that adderall isn't bad for you, but rather that meth is on an entirely different level from adderall. 10mg isn't really a dangerous dose but it is still enough to affect your mental state, although the kids that abuse them for exams are likely doing far, far more though.
Also, don't feel too bad about the others using that shit to do better on their exams. There is no chance they retained any of that info long term, it is no better than cheating and those habits will kick them in the ass later in life.
And both speed and meth are used recreationally, your point is?
Because, those drugs are actually, you know, fun to use?
They directly effect your serotonin receptors and release a shit ton of it over a short period of time. MDMA, Speed (pure amphetamine or otherwise), Meth, MDA, pseudoephedrine, cocaine, THOSE are recreational drugs. Adderall is no where near on the same level as those drugs.
Hell, you have to take several doses of it to get to the threshold, the other drugs mentioned act on even very small amounts.
Good lord, how’s that kid doing these days?
Probably a manager at corprate
Ritalin/concerta (the other big ADHD drug) is literally methylphenidate. "Meth" is in the name. Adderall is an amphetamine, the other half to "methamphetamine" ....
There's actually chemical similarities between the drug. Fact is: though similar, there's a large gap between taking a drug as prescribed by a medical professional in a controlled dosage, versus hitting the pipe behind the dumpster....
I would argue that these drugs like many psychoactive drugs, when abused, could be just as hazardous as their illegal counterpart, however, in clinical use cases, they can be life changing.
There's an ocean of difference between results if you compare what's found on the street, to what's in the bottle from the pharmacy.
This is the case for a lot of chemicals. Even pure cocaine has a place in medicine. The difference between something like methamphetamine bought from a street dealer, and the contents of Adderall or Ritalin/concerta, is huge. Minimizing that difference is doing a disservice to the public and only serves to spread FUD.
It's worth noting that doctors can literally prescribe methamphetamine to someone with ADHD. It's brand name is Desoxyn.
So you're saying that methane works the same as methamphetamine?
Amphetamine and methamphetamine are not that similar. Just because a chemical has a similar structure does not mean it is exactly the same. Buproprion is chemically almost exactly the same as ephedrine but have wildly different effects. Adderall is an amphetamine, vyvanse is an amphetamine.
These other drugs often leave most people feeling like shit, nobody is doing adderrall or these other drugs recreationally. Crystal meth gives you such a ridiculous dopamine rush that you feel like you are on top of the world, like you can conquer anything, but it will give you delusions and eventually that starts to go away.
As someone who takes Vyvanse 70mg (lisdexamfetamine) daily, and have smoked meth a few times, they're quite different. Vyvanse does give you energy, but it doesn't make you feel ecstatic. To me it just feels like a really strong coffee but I don't feel like shit and I can sleep at night.
I've been through Vyvanse withdrawals twice, and it sucks, but its nothing like meth withdrawal (I haven't experienced it myself, but I know people who have). People with a meth addiction are desperate enough to commit crime. Vyvanse withdrawals are so bad, sometimes us neuro-atypicals forget to take our addictive and dangerous drugs.
I tried to take vyvanse but I just couldn't handle it. I'm a stim junkie but vyvanse made me spotty as hell. I'd be awake one moment and borderline asleep, get mood swings. I just don't take prescriptions anymore.
I don't suppose you where making sure you smoked only 70mg of meth when you did didn't you?
Even if I did, it wouldn't be a valid experiment. Vyvanse can only be metabolised by digestion. You can't snort, smoke, shelf or inject it. Vyvance takes more than an hour to start working and lasts 12+ hours, meth is a few minutes and lasts a few hours.
My point is they are quite different. Vyvanse, by design, is much harder to abuse, and most people don't want to take it recreationally.
"nobody is doing adderrall or these other drugs recreationally" wtf. It's extremely common to take these recreationally. I've done this multiple times, great with alcohol and better with alcohol and weed.
If you think adderall is recreational then you have had very limited experience with drugs in your life. Almost everything else that's scheduled or illegal has a better recreational value.
I have a script for methylphenidate, my prescription is tracked and restricted by my governments health authority, I am only able to have 30 days worth every 30 days. If I try to get it ahead of time by a few weeks, they won't give it to me. My doctor can only give me three months worth of refills per prescription, so I have to get a new script every 3 months.
It's still listed as a narcotic.
Your version of recreation isn't the same as others, while your recreation may be more extreme, it doesn't make someone's "more tame" recreation and recreational use of narcotics in any form, any less recreational.
I take methylphenidate for the pharmacological benefit, not for recreation, but I could easily offload my meds for other people's recreation for a profit. I wouldn't, but I could. Point is, his recreational use isn't made invalid because it's not recreational enough in your opinion. If you're talking drugs that you don't need for Medical reasons, it's recreational.
Firstly, adderall is racemic which reduces the fun affects you would actually get from amphetamine. What we call "speed" is R-amphetamine, or amphetamine with R-enatinomers.
Secondly, narcotics have different definitions on who you ask, one is wildly more accurate than the other. Medically speaking, narcotics refer to opioids and opiates, basically anything psychoactive with numbing or paralyzing attributes. Cocaine doesn't do this (unless you get a lidocaine cut), yet it is classified as a narcotic (scheduled before they really started doing dirty shit like cutting with things like that). The government however does not classify amphetamines as a narcotic (which they would be correct).
I must warn you before we go on with this conversation that I have quite a fair bit of experience with CNS stimulants medically and otherwise, it is a subject that I have a large amount of knowledge in.
Haha, or maybe I've upped the dosage? 60mg is the minimum - better to double. Ofc if you overuse its effect will lessen. I admire how sure you seem in your judgement of strangers.
Nobody said anything about overuse.
I'm not judging you, I'm simply telling you that adderall is not a recreational drug. People get high off diphenhydramine, you think that shit is recreational?
The most recreational thing about adderall is the performance enhancing benefits, it's great when you need to do a shit ton of cardio. Getting fucked up though? Not really.
Overuse? I'm not going to argue, you'll turn this discussion in to a beginners philosophy course.
My comment about judgment was referring to your confidence when declaring me as Inexperienced with drugs.
I now belive I'm talking to a very young person, this might be or it might not. Either way it's a waste of time to continue.
Take a proper dose - stop pushing your ignorance online, and have good time.
I didn't declare that you are inexperienced with drugs nor did I insinuate that you are. I simply made the statement that adderall AKA racemic amphetamine, a drug with no severe dopamine affecting, serotonin affecting, psychedelic, or mind altering properties, is not a recreational drug.
Maybe you can have fun on adderall, some people enjoy cock and ball torture, that doesn't make it recreational. Like I said, people get high on benadryl, that is still not a recreational drug.
And what does my age have to do with anything? Using age in an argument is extremely childish. "I'm a year older than you so I know what I'm talking about". I don't know your age and I do not care.
I agree that it is a waste of time to continue, as we are pretty much going in circles, however I don't think this discussion was a waste of time though and it gave us both different perspective at the end of it. Maybe we both don't agree on the classification of adderall as a substance outside of medicine, but we still saw another person's perspective on it.
With that being said, I hope you have a wonderful day and if you decide to try any other substances, continue to implement harm reduction practices!
"If you think adderall is recreational then you have had very limited experience with drugs in your life" - You
recreational: relating to or denoting activity done for enjoyment.
This includes cock and ball torture and aderal.
Up the dosage, learn what I'm talking about - just remember if you take it everyday the effect will be diminished.
I am sorry but I think we will just have to agree to disagree. Coming from my background I have never seen adderall as anything other than medicine and a performance enhancing drug. I just do not see how you could extract any recreational value from adderall alone. I have taken up to 280 mg of adderall at once, it was great for my cardio sessions, but there are better choices for stimulants at raves, parties, and clubs. I'd recommend giving MDMA or 2CB a try to see exactly what I (and most others) classify as a recreational drug (a substance in which gives recreational value by itself). Do your research first, they're both safe (2CB is safer) when implementing proper harm reduction (test your shit, not just the drugs but their effect on yourself). Psychonaut Wiki has great articles on these which you should check out even as just passive reading.
Also, of course the effect would be diminished, but that goes for any brain chemistry altering substances. You can't even do classic psychedelics every day (except for possibly psilocybin at a low dose) and those tend to be the safest drugs in terms of brain chemistry. The brain needs time to recover and replenish it's stores of whatever it was you just depleted. Anyone that does not or cannot understand that should not use any such substances, as that's how addiction begins.
Listen, this discussion is getting old. If you are so sure of your position be so in silence - don't bombard me with your [deleted] efforts and then another wall of text, please.
You have failed to convince me of your competence. If it's not the case that you just maratoned som youtube videoes, then work on your tone and presentation. This kind of unfounded lecturing is why I think you are so young.
I wish you the best of luck growing, what ever your age may be.
The [deleted] is my bad. I keep getting network errors whenever I post (this account is located on lemmy.world which has apparently been receiving some pretty bad network issues lately) and it seems like they go through multiple times or sometimes they do not go through at all. If you think I'm deleting my posts due to errors in my writing, ask yourself why I wouldn't simply just edit my post?
I'm not lecturing you at all. I'm giving my .02 just as you gave yours, I even say that we should just agree to disagree and yet you are trying to end the conversation on "your terms" to seem like "you're right". It is clear you didn't learn anything from this conversation whatsoever, I learned something and I'm not ashamed to admit it. I simply said that I'm going to continue to personally classify these substances based on how the rest of the (experienced) world sees them. No reason to throw a hissy fit.
I don't know what comes off as childish in anything I write as I have given clear and consice information that is accurate. The fact that you are making age such a big deal in this discussion leads me to believe that you are in fact very young considering the fact that children tend to hold age very highly when it comes to "who is right or wrong". Just because someone is in their 80's doesn't mean they know anything more than someone in their 30's (especially in a given topic), the only thing guaranteed is experience.
Admittedly my tone was harsh in the beginning but I lightened up as to ease the conversation, ironically you would benefit from following your own advice as you have kept a harsh tone throughout the conversation.
What about Nymphetamine?
I wouldn't really call that a drug so much as a byproduct.
If I may ask, why did you bring that particular substance up?
I had no idea it's actually a thing, always assumed it as a joke combination of nymphomania and amphetamine. It's a song/album name by Cradle of Filth
Yeah Im aware of the song too lol, yeah it is an actual substance though.
I know! I used to love their reporting, now it’s rare to find an article that isn’t straight up trash. I don’t have ADHD but I take stimulants to counteract severe lupus-related fatigue. I used to have “mega sleeps” where I’d sleep up to 30 hours at a time (waking up for a pee a few times). It was no life.
Apologies I coult resist
Neither could my doctor when I was diagnosed… I was as amused then as I am now 😉
Indeed you need meth
Vice has been utter shit for most of it's existence.
Wasn’t Vice that was going through economic issues?