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[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 22 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Did the US ever kill 1% of a country's population in less than four months? Iraq took years to reach 0.5% and it was a big fucking deal.

[-] Arete@lemmy.world 21 points 9 months ago

I'm going to assume you're posting in good faith until proven otherwise.

The US never fought an urban country the size of Las Vegas, so a country-scale comparison is poor. We have however engaged in city-scale battles lasting several months, many of which killed 1% of the civilian population. A pretty good recent example is Mosul. There are several more egregious examples in the world wars, Korea, Vietnam, etc. notably we carpet bombed Tokyo for months killing several percent of the population.

[-] CodeInvasion@sh.itjust.works -2 points 9 months ago

I hate that I am defending Israel when I say this because what is occurring in Gaza is tragic, but a lot of people are confusing "Genocide" for perceived "War Crimes" as defined by international law and also confusing "Hamas" for "Palestine" or the "Palestinian Authority".

Hamas is terrorist government (similar in nature to the Taliban) that receives a lot of external funding from countries that actively wish to see the death of Israel and all Jews, making Hamas the chief perpetrators of Genocide in this conflict despite how ineffective they have been in their goals.

Israel was attacked by this terrorist government, and is now defending itself with the expressed war goal of destroying Hamas. While Israel has had a tenuous relationship with the Palestinian people (namely the government's active efforts to limit the Palestinian Authority and drag their feet on grant the PA more autonomy and their own state which is deplorable and inexcusable), they do not and have not wished to kill an entire culture of people.

Complicating matters, Hamas commonly employs warfare techniques that go against the Geneva Convention like placing government and military headquarters in basements of protected buildings like Hospitals and places of worship. The moment they do that, and abuse those international recognized sanctuaries, they become legitimate military targets leading to the tragic deaths of unwitting civilians.

People can object to the war on the grounds that war is tragic and results in many civilian casualties, but to make meritless claims is detrimental to both international institutions and to the definition of a Genocide. South Africa calls what Israel is doing a genocide, but also explicitly looks the other way with Ukraine and continues to forge close ties with Putin? (For the record, Russia's actions in Ukraine are also not considered genocide under it's strict international definition, but they have been found guilty of war crimes).

Israel has an internationally recognized right to defend itself, and it is doing that by dismantling Hamas through force. The Palestinian people are unfortunately caught in the crossfire. With that said, Israel's methods to this end are not above criticism, and they have faced pressure from the US and Biden to limit civilian casualties wherever possible, and use ground forces to directly attack Hamas rather than relying on airstrikes that have resulted in many innocent deaths.

For those reading who think all war is bad, I'll leave you with this quote from John Stuart Mills:

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their free choice, — is often the means of their regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. As long as justice and injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight for ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when need is, to do battle for the one against the other.

[-] Tinidril@midwest.social 2 points 9 months ago

All sides seem to get confused about the difference between Hamas and the Palestinians, at least when it suits them.

The charge of genocide is entirely fair and well supported. Israel's consistent refusals to allow adequate aid, and cutting off water and power are sufficient all by themselves to support that claim, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

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this post was submitted on 14 Jan 2024
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