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submitted 9 months ago by L4s@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

We Asked A.I. to Create the Joker. It Generated a Copyrighted Image.::Artists and researchers are exposing copyrighted material hidden within A.I. tools, raising fresh legal questions.

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[-] orclev@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago

If the training data is obviously copyright infringement, then the data must be retrained in a more appropriate manner.

This is the crux of the issue, it isn't obviously copyright infringement. Currently copyright is completely silent on the matter one way or another.

The thing that makes this particularly interesting is that the traditional copyright maximalists, the ones responsible for ballooning copyright durations from its original reasonable limit of 14 years (plus one renewal) to its current absurd duration of 95 years, also stand to benefit greatly from generative works. Instead of the usual full court press we tend to see from the major corporations around anything copyright related we're instead seeing them take a rather hands off approach.

[-] dragontamer@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago

This is the crux of the issue, it isn’t obviously copyright infringement. Currently copyright is completely silent on the matter one way or another.

Its clear that the training weights have the data on recreating this Joker scene. Its also clear that if the training-data didn't contain this image, then the copy of the image would never result into the weights that have been copy/pasted everywhere.

[-] orclev@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Except it isn't a perfect copy. It's very similar, but not exact. Additionally for every example you can find where it spits out a nearly identical image you can also find one where it produces nothing like it. Even more complicated you can get images generated that very closely match other copyrighted works, but which the model was never trained on. Does that mean copying the model violates the copyright of a work that it literally couldn't have included in its data?

You're making a lot of assumptions and arguments that copyright covers things that it very much does not cover or at a minimum that it hasn't (yet) been ruled to cover.

Legally, as things currently stand, an AI model trained on a copyrighted work is not a copy of that work as far as copyright is concerned. That's today's legal reality. That might change in the future, but that's far from certain, and is a far more nuanced and complicated problem than you're making it out to be.

Any legal decision that ruled an AI model is a copy of all the works used to train it would also likely have very far reaching and complicated ramifications. That's why this needs to be argued out in court, but until then what midjourney is doing is perfectly legal.

[-] dragontamer@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/derivative_work

Copyrights allow their owners to decide how their works can be used, including creating new derivative works off of the original product. Derivative works can be created with the permission of the copyright owner or from works in the public domain. In order to receive copyright protection, a derivative work must add a sufficient amount of change to the original work.

The law is very clear on the nature of derivative works of copyrighted material.

[-] orclev@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

Not sure where they're getting the bit about copyright disallowing derived works as that's just not true. You can get permission to create a derived work, but you don't need permission to create a derived work so long as the final result does not substantially consist of the original work.

Unfortunately what constitutes "substantially" is somewhat vague. Various rulings have been made around that point, but I believe a common figure used is 30%. By that metric any given image represents substantially less than 30% of any AI model so the model itself is a perfectly legal derived work with its own copyright separate from the various works that were combined to create it.

Ultimately though the issue here is that the wrong tool is being used, copyright just doesn't cover this case, it's just what people are most familiar with (not to mention most people are very poorly educated about it) so that's what everyone reaches for by default.

With generative AI what we have is a tool that can be used to trivially produce works that are substantially similar to existing copyrighted works. In this regard it's less like a photocopier, and more like Photoshop, but with the critical difference that no particular talent is necessary to create the reproduction. Because it's so easy to use people keep focusing on trying to kill the tool rather than trying to police the people using it. But they're going about it all wrong, copyright isn't the right weapon if that's your goal. Copyright can be used to go after the people using generative AI tools, but not the people creating the tools.

[-] dragontamer@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

Because it’s so easy to use people keep focusing on trying to kill the tool rather than trying to police the people using it. But they’re going about it all wrong, copyright isn’t the right weapon if that’s your goal. Copyright can be used to go after the people using generative AI tools, but not the people creating the tools.

Why? If the training weights are created and distributed in violation of copyright laws, it seems appropriate to punish those illegal training weights.

In fact, all that people really are asking for, is for a new set of training weights to be developed but with appropriate copyright controls. IE: With express permission from the artists and/or entities who made the work.

this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2024
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