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submitted 1 year ago by o_o@programming.dev to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

Hi all,

I'm seeing a lot of hate for capitalism here, and I'm wondering why that is and what the rationale behind it is. I'm pretty pro-capitalism myself, so I want to see the logic on the other side of the fence.

If this isn't the right forum for a political/economic discussion-- I'm happy to take this somewhere else.

Cheers!

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[-] donuts@kbin.social 91 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Capitalism has given a lot of people out there a raw deal: low wages, increasing gap between the rich and the poor, home ownership is out of reach to many, healthcare is unaffordable to many, having a family is prohibitively expensive, we own almost nothing and rent almost everything, even basic necessities like food, water and clothing are painfully expensive. What's more, when you look at the systems in place today, it appears that these aren't bugs, but features.

I'm a socialist because I believe that society ought to use its collective power and money to guarantee all of its people a minimum of the basic, essential things that they need to live, by subsidizing food, water, shelter, clothing, heat, electricity, data, education and healthcare.

Outside of those crucial things, capitalism is just fine, as long as people are being paid fairly for their time. And, as we've all seen, capitalism needs strict rules and guard rails to make sure that workers aren't being constantly exploited. If capitalism was working well for everyone, we were all getting paid fairly for our time, and people could take care of their needs (not to mention their wants), then nobody would have any reason to care or complain about capitalism. But sadly, as it is today, capitalism is just not working for a lot of people, and many people out there are not even having their basic needs met (even despite getting an education, taking out loans, getting a job, getting a second job, working hard, etc.).

To me, creating a prosperous and happy society is much more complex than picking capitalism or socialism, and some mix of both is probably the best of both worlds.

[-] dingus@lemmy.ml 58 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There is actually not much separating capitalism and socialism other than workers being in control of the means of production.

Socialism doesn't have anything against markets. Socialism doesn't have anything against organizational structures. What it does have issue with is workers not having any democratic say in how their workplaces operate and who they choose to do business with.

That's the thing, not a lot would have to change, other than putting legal protections and norms in place for workplace elections and so on.

[-] steltek@lemm.ee 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

not a lot would have to change, other than putting legal protections and norms in place for workplace elections and so on.

I definitely don't identify as a Socialist but even still, I would have added, "tax the fuck out of the rich". Income inequality is the root evil for most people today.

[-] dingus@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If workers own the means of production, wouldn't the rich fat cats cease to exist as they've functionally been replaced?

I'm not against a fair taxation system, but the obscene wealth of CEOs is literally one of the many things that socialism addresses because you can vote on executive compensation as well as worker compensation. The people at the bottom have unique access via their voting power to prevent those at the top from achieving obscene wealth at the expense of the average worker (see: Bob Iger, who makes 400x his average employee).

Yes, a better taxation rate is needed for the wealthy, but a lot of that wealth would get punched in the dick and be out of a job when voted out by their workers. They ain't gonna be John Galting it and build a gleaming city on the hill because none of those rich twerps know how to do actual labor, so they would be out of work.

Like seriously I can't imagine someone like Elon Musk or Steve Huffman surviving a workers vote on the boss. If they can't legally put their finger on the scale by using their wealth as a cudgel, fuck nobody would vote for these fuckers to be in charge.

[-] steltek@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

Perhaps a I misinterpreted you when you stated "not a lot would have to change". Those sound like some pretty extreme changes from the status quo, actually.

[-] steltek@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

Perhaps a I misinterpreted you when you stated "not a lot would have to change". Those sound like some pretty extreme changes from the status quo, actually.

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this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2023
449 points (75.9% liked)

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