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this post was submitted on 20 Feb 2024
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For full context, Israel says 10,000 are Hamas soldiers. It's super disingenuous for the Gaza health ministry (Hamas) to lump military and civilian deaths together like they do. And I know, you're literally frothing at the mouth to inform me how all Israeli's are liars and all Palestinians are angels. I'm not going to read any responses.
For fuller context, Israel lies about everything.
Classic cult tactic.
Lmao, what an answer, you haven't even came back with an answer
Also HAMAS admitted it have lost at least 6 000, while IDF talks about 12 000, and you know that HAMAS obviously wants everyone to think that their losses as a low as possible, so 10k seems realistic to me
Out of the 28,775 people killed it's reported that
12,300 are children, and
8,400 are women.
That leaves about 8,075 men
Hamas probably has exactly 0 women as soldiers, but how many children do they have as soldiers?
None.
If you watch footage from oct7 you see bearded adult men.
If you go to c/combatfootage the Hamas fighters in Gaza certainly don't look like teenage kids either.
Obviously all those toddlers are hamas
I believe the demographics of gaza includes people besides toddlers and adults.
You right, you right, obviously the children and babies are Hamas as well
The US led invasion of Iraq had approximately 655,000 civilian deaths according to the Lancet. The Chechen war had about 80,000. 10,000 in an area with a much higher density is relatively low.
Your comment sounds like it's justifying killing 2 civilians for everyone 1 soldier. Even assuming your number is correct, it doesn't really matter. It's just as bad.
Hamas is partly to blame for the following reasons:
They use human shield tactics
They haven't built bomb shelters (edit: for civilians)
They have no civilian evacuation plans
They appear to actively stop people from evacuating
Also, the population density in Gaza is one of the highest ones in the world. Which is really nobody's fault I guess, but makes the number of civilian deaths worse, especially given the above 4 points.
Did you really say "they didn't build bomb shelters"? Are you ok?
I should've written: "They haven't built bomb shelters for civilians"
Is it shocking to learn this? It seems so absurd that you cannot believe it?
I kinda agree.
How do you expect Hamas to build bomb shelters? Setting aside how Israel has bunker busters and has been using them in Gaza, because of Israel's blockade things that you'd normally need to make a bomb shelter (or any decent structure) are unavailable. It's to the point UNRWA is teaching Gazans how to build houses using mud.
In the exact same way as they build bomb shelters for their soldiers? Probably not optimal for civilians, but better than nothing.
But can those shelters house the ridiculous amount of civilians in Gaza? I don't see how they could build these things at a large enough scale to house Gazan civilians, not to mention they'd be bombed first thing because they're "Hamas headquarters". At least Israel can't use bunker busters on hospitals and UN schools (hopefully).
Why it doesn't matter?
https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm
It shows that it's low, and Israel does care about civilians, a shame that civilians die in the first place, but that what war is, especially considering HAMAS fighters a lot of times wear civilian clothing and don't follow the laws of war
@Fitik yikes, classic case of not reading your own link:
The whole thing is a UN discussion where they talk about the need for greater Humanitarian access in war zones.
The part you are quoting is about how using explosives in densely populated areas causes 90% which is way higher than normal. Normal being 10%.
In other words, the people in your link are condemning exactly the kind of things Israel is doing now in Gaza i.e incendiaries in densely populated areas and hindering humanitarian access.
Now prove 10,000 were Hamas.
Sure, Hamas should paint giant targets on their backs and face the Israelis in an open field, mano-a-mano.
As long as Israel doesn't recognize Palestine as an independent state, I don't see why Palestinian freedom fighters, Hamas or otherwise, should behave like they're the official army of an independent state.
Is that… supposed to be numbers in Israel’s favor? That for every one militant they kill they only kill 1.9 women and children and noncombatants?
That’s just absolutely insane. And that’s with what I’m going to assume is an extremely favorable estimation on Israel’s part
That's literally one of the "best" ratios for urban warfare in modern conflicts tho? It's a shame that the war is even there, but the numbers are "in Israel favor", Gaza is densely populated, and this is a full scale war.
That’s simply not true. You might be basing your opinion on the widespread (but almost entirely made up) statistic that “90% of war casualties are civilians”.
Add in that this is no longer 1945 or whatever and you have to come to terms that the death toll is so high largely because the IDF is one of if not the most profoundly cowardly militaries on the planet
So you think it is disingenuous of Israel to have lumped the more than half military and police deaths, let alone the civilians they killed themselves, in the list of deaths on October 7th? At least those death were, according to international law, actually legal.
How do you count people who are active reservists? Are they considered civilian or combatants?
If those data were minimally credible, we would still be talking about 2/3 civilian casualties, about ~10k children killed instead of ~15k. Your context doesn't change the tone, it's still genocide, indiscriminate massacres, endless war crimes, etc.
And famously, once you kill enough terrorists and take enough land, the rest sort of say "OK fair dues" and there are no more terrorists ever
This is likely the wisest part of any comment that's going to be on this thread. 🤞hopefully I'm wrong.