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Italian town in turmoil after far-right mayor bans Muslim prayers
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 18 Feb 2024
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Murder attempt: https://youtu.be/rMGBz5Zxld4 Rioting: https://youtu.be/oQSBqdEt-Bo More rioting and aggressiveness https://youtu.be/feCEk81OATQ Even more rioting: https://youtu.be/FlfgiSEiTfY Even more rioting: https://www.bt.no/hendelser/i/wAQRoo/eritrea-demonstrasjon-endte-i-slagsmaal-politiet-ber-folk-holde-seg-unna Swedish military having to get involved due to kurdish gang violence in Sweden: https://www.tv2.no/nyheter/sverige-forsvaret-skal-hjelpe-politiet-i-gjengkrigen/16089740/
Etc, you get the point. Who are burning the quran? SIAN (Stopp islamisering av Norge - Stop Islamization of Norway). It's a legitimate critisism towards against an anti-western religion that is getting increased footing in Norway.
A religion isn't a race, so it's not racism. It's not just some bad actors, it's a disproportionally higher amount than any other group. When 25% of the world population are muslims, why does Norway/Europe need to take them in as refugees? Europe itself has less than 10% of the world population, and Norways has less than 1% of Europes population. It's way better for all parties if they're taken in by someone with a more similar culture, instead.
It’s upto norway to decide whether they want to take Muslims or not, so I am not gonna debate that, and from here I guess you are right that maybe a particular group might be causing more problems than others, but then I think you should clearly spell it out and say muslims will be under extra scrutiny/different laws, don’t put on the image of secularism, which is my entire point
Okay I am genuinely curious here, I am not very well versed about what’s going on in norway but I surely haven’t heard anything major like muslims planning a coup and overthrowing the government, or is this something else I don’t know
There's a pressure towards EU/EØS countries to take in so called "quota refugees". Norway is way to willing in that regard. Our politicians, and unfortunately way to many people living here, are taking them in way too willingly.
Secularism: imo all religions, even christianity should be threated as a cult. Secularism should be less about freedom of religion, and more about freedom from religion. Doesn't mean I want to burn down all of our churches and history, just that we should move forward with less religion rather than more.
About overthrowing, there may not be any concrete plan, but many muslims share the same goal of "spreading their faith". Lebanon is an example of a country that got destabilized into a civil war, after taking in too many palestinian refugees, turning it into a muslim majority country.
Imho countries like Lebanon would probably have descended on civil war anyway because of lack of resources and brutal military intervention by guess who
Here is the problem, conveniently made a comment about this just somewhere above in this post. https://lemmy.world/comment/7735405
We both disagree on a very fundamental thing as you can see, I don’t see any point in continuing the discussion further, thanks for your time
I feel like I have to make a final comment, because I disagree strongly with the comment you linked. That being an atheist is about being cool and edgy. One of the main reasons I dislike religion in the first place (especially Islam), is due to all the horrible stuff happening in the name of some religion. Stuff like religous wars, hatred towards other religions, rejecting science, and controlling of others (especially women). You may call atheism a religion on its own, and that I hate muslims, but I disagree. It's all about not tolerating the intolerant.
Well I hate that too and Ig I should have clarified that, for me religion is something you study and own but only for yourself, not something you impose on others, sure you can share it, but forcing it, a big NO
Science is comparatively not talked that much about in religion because it is not the main topic
Talking about quran specifically, I don’t think you will find anything that goes against established science, because all of the things it talks about are not some rocket science but rather everyday observations (plants growing, embryos etc), and I know it’s far fetched, but if you study comparative religion, you wont find anything in it that completely contradicts common sense, or is forced or bigoted, some strict rules that might exist are part of what you accept when you accept a particular religion/take part in something, and since there is no compulsion, I don’t think there is a problem (https://quran.com/al-baqarah/256)
And I would also like to add that that I understand your frustration, a tree is recognized by it’s fruit, you can’t say ‘Oh we are the worst kind of people, but my religion makes sense, see for yourself’, I think any sane person will respond somewhere along the lines ‘Why should I tolerate a tree whose products are rotten people like you’ or something idk I can’t seem to come up with anything better, so it’s something we all have to work on
Edit: And a lot of strict rules about women aren’t that strict to begin with, they were just made so by overly conservative people or people who somewhat misunderstood some quranic verses based specifically about the prophets household, thankfully most people nowadays are of a much more moderate position (see for eg nouman ali khan, he is stated as conservative by a lot of people, but you could see his stance his much different than what the media and extremely conservative scholars might make you believe)
So I will say, that your frustration is not completely unreasonable, but I will still maintain that taking someones basic right based on the fact that they are muslims is wrong, you can maybe put them in extra scrutiny when traveling or in public spaces, but stopping them from making a prayer? I don’t think so
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