754
Michigan governor says not voting for Biden over Gaza war ‘supports second Trump term’
(www.theguardian.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024
754 points (94.6% liked)
politics
19148 readers
1979 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
That's a bad idea. If the US stops supporting Israel, Hamas and their financial backers will immediately invade to wipe them off the planet. I don't know if the rhetoric I hear is mostly Russian propaganda, or people don't really understand the conflict. Israel didn't just decide to invade Gaza, there was an 9/11-esk terrorist attack by Hamas that triggered his retaliation. Despite being the defacto governors of Gaza, Hamas is a terrorist organization and operates like one. There is no attacking Hamas without attacking Gaza. They are essentially one in the same, and there is no peaceful solution when Hamas goal is to wipe Israel off the planet. It would be a kin to the US not going after Osama Bin Laden after 9/11. Do you think he would have stopped? I don't think I've heard anyone seriously suggest the US should have done nothing after 9/11. Going into Afghanistan was pretty well supported (Ignoring Iraq, because that's where the Bush Admin fucked it up). The only solution to 9/11 was a time machine going back and not getting involved in the Middle East in the first place, but now where talking a reverse butterfly effect of who knows what happens. The Israel-Hamas conflict is older than Hamas, and it quite literally one of, if not the most complex Geo-political issues in history.
Personally I think the best Idea would be the pressure Israel into larger oversight by the UN, or whomever. I don't see any true peace while Hamas or any other Islamist extremist organization exists in that region. The time for that was twenty plus years ago.
I have a better idea, US soldiers are employed within Israel border to cut the settlers off from having resources until they surrender and turn themselves into Palestine with support on placing them on trial, along with searching former and current soldiers that supports the settlers. I don't think I can trust Israel to give up on supporting their settlers. And then, force a 2-state solution via bargaining peace, any trouble, they lose territory and soldiers. That way, Israel ends up being forced to stop supporting settlers and Palestine stop making trouble.
US troops on the ground means another occupation where Hamas would gladly attack them too. I’m not sure the general public wants another Iraq or Afghanistan where Americans get killed and the outcome likely ends up no different. Hamas doesn’t want Israel to exist at all. A two state solution still needs to deal with them.
Then, how do you solve the issue of Israel-Palestine never-ending conflict? Israel has the settlers problem, and no one likes them including Israelis while Israel government still sponsors them, while Palestine has the antisemitism problem.
There may not be a peaceful solution, but the correct violent solution would be for Israel to stop the weapons blockade on Gaza, so that non-Hamas Gazans can arm themselves, and so they have a chance to overthrow Hamas on their own.
Hamas rules without elections, hence do not have the consent of those governed.
The weapons embargo is failing, obviously. As gun control opponents in the USA often point out, gun laws basically ensure the rule followers are disarmed; it doesn’t do much to disarm the criminals.
All this weapons blockade is doing is making Gazans helpless.
And because they are helpless, they are not responsible for Hamas.
I’m NOT trying to say here that arming average Gazans would make it okay to carpet bomb Gaza, but it would at least open the door for Gazans to take a side.
If I were running Israel, my policy would be:
With the Gazan people being actively prevented from arming themselves by the Israeli military, there is no way in hell that Gazans could ever be responsible for Hamas. They are in a state of helpless victimhood that is continually enforced by the actions of Israel.
Stop the weapons blockade. It is a violation of human rights. I mean naturally the food and medicine blockades are fucked too. But keeping the Gazan population unarmed is also a serious violation of their rights, and it makes Israel’s current actions immoral.
Support for Hamas is Growing
I don’t believe adding more guns solves any problem, so that’s a non starter for me.
However just today, Palestinian prime minister submitted the government’s resignation, so we will see what’s next.
Which has fuckall to do with Hamas. The Palestinian Authority has no presence in Gaza.
I’ve said before that there is no resolution without getting rid of Hamas. Outside of that, there are measures like this. If these are meaningless, then all out war is the only answer and that’s what Israel is doing.