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submitted 8 months ago by L4s@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

Toyota wants hydrogen to succeed so bad it’s paying people to buy the Mirai::Toyota is offering some amazing deals for its hydrogen fuel cell-powered Mirai. That is, if customers can find the hydrogen to power it.

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[-] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Hydrogen cannot be greener than an EV, because it's just an EV with more steps. It's energy intensive to turn electricity + water to hydrogen, transport it, pump it, then convert it back to electricity.

The losses from simply running electrons through a wire are very small.

It is physically impossible for hydrogen cars to ever be as green as EVs. In order to do so you'd have to break laws of physics.

E: ok people. You live in your little fantasy world where thermodynamics aren't a thing.

[-] desconectado@lemm.ee 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

There are laws of thermodynamics and there are laws of kinetics.

Fuels have much more power density than batteries. You can't deliver power as fast with a battery compared to a fuel. It doesn't matter if thermodynamically one is more efficient or greener than the other. You would be crazy to suggest moving an airbus with a battery, that's physically impossible.

I'm a researcher in both fields (batteries and hydrogen)

[-] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

Sure, but I'm not talking about jets, which yeah, do need a far greater energy density than batteries can currently provide.

[-] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 0 points 8 months ago

It is physically impossible for hydrogen cars to ever be as green as EVs. In order to do so you’d have to break laws of physics.

In a pure fuel comparison sure, does that still hold true when you also factor in manufacturing?

The losses from simply running electrons through a wire are very small.

You conveniently forgot about battery charging and discharging losses.

[-] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

In a pure fuel comparison sure, does that still hold true when you also factor in manufacturing?

Yes.

You conveniently forgot about battery charging and discharging losses.

I didn't. Those are very small. Compared to the losses of a HFCEV or even worse, a combustion hydrogen car.

this post was submitted on 01 Mar 2024
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