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R(ul)evenge USA edition
(lemmy.blahaj.zone)
The discourse on American politics sometimes devolves to "Leftists who won't vote" & "MAGA Republicans" teaming up to "getting revenge on liberals".
A third party has literally no chance of winning. By voting for a third party or abstaining from voting, you are taking a vote away from Biden and thereby aiding Trump.
If you’re too ignorant to understand that, then I can’t help you
The fact that you’d rather let Trump win to stick it to Biden than try to prevent literal fascists from taking over our nation says a lot about you as a person.
it's my vote to give and it's biden's vote to earn. it's not like he doesn't know what cornel west voters want. he just doesn't care to earn that vote.
So you’d rather let Trump win, got it.
no. you're putting words in my mouth.
You both have valid and correct feelings on the matter, and that is the tragedy.
Cornel West earned your vote, Biden didn't. However, if Cornel earns enough votes, both liberals and leftists are going to have to look at the prospect of having to take our antifascism off screen.
You have the luxary of voting third party, but do queer people? Do people fighting for women's healthcare? Even people fighting for Palestinian liberation have to ensure Biden wins.
I think that is something Cornel West and his followers should at least be talking amongst themselves about.
you don't know my identity.
I think if you are queer you should look at the US map and honestly ask yourself where is safest for you in a fully fascist government?
The i-5 corridor. Except a thrown ballot against liberals is going to put Dace Reichert into office in Washington.
If queer people lose Washington or Oregon as a safe haven where liberals are using the courts to ouah gay rights forward nationally, that's the fault solely of privileged leftists, in my book.
But you are also right, Biden didn't earn your vote. No liberal ever will. But sometimes, the only option is to let them have it. It sucks, I know. I am sorry, but the liberal coalition is the only safe path forward for the left movement at this moment.
i'm not leaving my home. and america is already fascist.
If the republicans are who they say they are, and they get power over your jurisdiction, yeah, you likely will. Not in 2025, maybe not in 2028 even, but how long will it be?
Maybe the first time you are shoved into an alleyway by an "athletic club" and your head shoved against the concrete, only to find that the district attorney decides there isn't enough evidence to serve you justice, yeah, you will be planning your exit.
You will not be going Rambo, you will be finding safe haven.
i have friends. i'm not scared. you aren't going to threaten and bully me into doing something immoral.
What?
Funny how libs rarely have to compromise their core values to vote for Dem candidates, while your party leadership aggressively prevents the left from gaining any purchase in the party organizational structure, but you have the gall to demand our votes while showing zero sensitivity for the left’s moral concerns about Dem projects like the ongoing extirpation of Palestinians in Gaza—not to mention the left’s very reasonable observation that concessionary voting for neolibs since Carter has created a ratcheting of American politics to the far right.
I don’t believe Trump will break America, because the Democratic Party clearly doesn’t. No party that believed that so much was on the line would prevent a competitive primary and support a VP candidate with the lowest approval rating in history, who has no constituency behind her, when the top of the ticket is 81 years old.
...okay, but your argument falls apart due to the fact that I'm not a liberal.
If you’ve bought the lib line on voting this cycle, that’s great for you. But, you should stop shaming principled leftists like PP for not buying it.
If people don't like their privilege checked, they shouldn't post in leftist spaces.
Actions speak louder then words.
"We are who we pretend to be, so we should be careful who we pretend to be."
If the only real political input we have is used to support the leading liberal candidate, then it's reasonable to identify them as a 'Liberal Voter' regardless of who or what they claim to the contrary.
This whole wing of the leftist movement that accuses everybody of being a secret liberal is really stupid and I don't feel like wasting my time engaging with somebody choosing to take the dialog to that level.
Well, I would say that you should actually read Vonnegut instead of using his quotes in ways in which they weren't intended.
Because I can assure you, he didn't make that statement in support of the left shutting down productive communication with each other by accusing each other of being "closeted" liberals.
The close mindedness is going to make you fall victim to things worse than liberalism if you decide to not work on that current but fixable flaw.
I'm a Hoosier born in Indianapolis, the same home-state as Kurt Vonnegut and Eugene Debs, and I've read 6 of his novels. You seem to be the misguided one in this scenario.
Oh, had I realized I was talking to somebody from Indianapolis, I wouldn't have suggested Kurt Vonnegut was above that kind of behavior. I didn't realize it was part of ya'll's identity.
Carry on.
when do politicians bear the responsibility of their own actions?
no. we have to ensure the safety of the palestinian peopl and their liberation regardless of what happens november 2
When trump wins with your help, what are you going to be doing to help Palestinian people?
It will be too late, won't it?
same thing i do now. agitate, educate, organize.
What specifically does any of that mean?
i don't talk about my personal organizing here. go find an org and help out.
Are you accusing me of being uncharitable towards others because I asked you to clarify what you meant?
Uhm, OK.
no. i'm telling you that's the best way to find out what i do.
How can I find out what you do if you refuse to tell me what organization I should go to?
you will have better luck blindly joining leftist orgs than asking me for more details here.
Can you please just do 1 response to 1 statement? This comment chain is going to grow exponentially if I respond to each thing that could have really just been 1 message to prevent repeating.
i don't like walls of text. if you don't want to talk to me, please don't
Okay!
Great, and what are you going to say to all of the LGBT folk who get legislated out of existence because of your failure to protect them?
I do what I can to protect vulnerable people. I don't believe voting accomplishes that.
Voting third party is no vote at all. Therefore you are refusing to combat Trump, and so are complicit in his victory if it happens.
You are just as much to blame as the Reps if he wins.
any vote that is not for trump is a vote against trump
False. If you do not vote Biden, you are throwing away a vote against Trump. Voting third party is no vote at all.
this is election misinformation. my vote must be counted just like everyone else.
no. everyone is only responsible for their own actions. I'll be voting against trump
Then vote Biden, or you’re not voting at all. Third party means nothing.
this is election misinformation. my vote must be counted like anybody else.
i won't be helping trump win. i'll be voting against him.
The only way in the US system to throw a protest vote without it being a spoiler vote is to vote for the 3rd party which siphons votes from the candidate you want the least.
So since you prefer Biden over Trump, you should be voting for the libertarian candidate instead of West.
this makes no sense. i am going to vote for the candidate i want to win.
this is a lie. the votes don't belong to biden. they belong to me. if i give it to someone, it's not taking it from anyone else.
voting isn't a protest, so this term makes no sense.