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‘Not a normal war’: doctors say children have been targeted by Israeli snipers in Gaza
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 02 Apr 2024
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I really don't know where you got the idea that I think there is anything excusable about what the Israeli government is doing.
My initial comment is merely an expression that it is no longer surprising. That they are no longer in any way hiding that the goal is absolute atrocity.
My second comment concurs with the unfortunate reality that the leaderships involved have all contributed to things getting worse, and innocents ending up dead, or suffering and then dead. AT NO POINT DID I SUGGEST ANYONE IN GAZA DESERVES WHAT IS HAPPENING.
Even if all the people who wanted to do evil in Gaza, are now dead, at no point did I suggest what has transpired was a remotely acceptable way to achieve that. Or even that killing them was on the table in the first place. That interpretation is entirely yours.
Yet, the reality is that even if no-one in Hamas wanted every Israelite dead before, some of them do now. Do they have good reason for such desires? Oh yeah. And that is gonna be an obstacle along any path you might take to make this stop. It doesn't matter which ones survive. The nature of what has been done to them means there will be someone out for blood. AND NO, THAT IS NOT A REASON TO KEEP KILLING THEM!
No it isn't and I wish you would stop insisting that it is or would be. Neither the people of Gaza nor their leaders have the ability to stop this shit; what they feel about Israelis matters not at all. The motherfuckers standing by, watching, supporting this shit are the one's whose morality you should be calling into question. They are the obstacles standing in the way of justice and peace, ignoring their moral obligation to stop a fucking genocide.
I'm not saying they do. In fact I literally pointed that exact fact out.
You are absolutely, 100%, correct. Preaching to the choir. Israel needs to stop, immediately. Anyone who can force their hand should have done so, day one.
But what comes after cannot be what was done to Germany after WWI, because that shit is what led to WWII. Now before you get your panties further into a twist, no, Hama's current position is not equivalent to that of Germany in WWI.
But ANY peace that comes after this, won't last, if the people of Gaza have any desire for revenge left 50 years from now. The same goes for Israel, they should more likely develop the kind of national shame that Germany has for WWII, but they too will need some kind of cultural stopping element for their bloodlust.
Whatever comes after this is one of two scenarios: the destruction of Gaza, or the dissolution of Israel. There is no outcome where things go back to how they were before Oct 7. That door is closed and the status quo of those times was no less unjust the the current situation. These two states cannot coexist, worrying about how Israel and Gaza will get along when the bombs stop dropping is pointless because things have escalated to the point where one or both cannot and will not survive this. Hemming and hawing about how much Gaza will hate Israel is pointless navel gazing.
Fully agree.
But the people in that land WILL have to co-exist, no matter what shape their nations take. To minimize death, that is not optional.
You can't just defang a government and expect that to be the end of it.
You don't understand. There will be no government left. Either the international community steps in because it finally realizes its moral obligation to stop a genocide, in which case Israel's government is gone; either tried in the Hague or dead, and the whole region is collapsed into newly-formed single state staffed by UN stooges. Or things continue as they are and we watch a million people get starve under the boot of fascist colonial expansionism, their leadership having fled or been killed. Then we get to watch it all over again when Israel decides it wants the West Bank, too.
...
How exactly does any of that semantic nitpicking change the fact that as long as the people remain, the cultural clash that led to all this, will too?
Unless you are suggesting that to stop a genocide, we need another one?
You've spent this entire discussion lamenting about how depraved the leadership of these groups are, how they're the ones driving the conflict. Now you're going to swap to saying that it's cultural? Make up your mind.
Now you're grasping straws.
Unless you are suggesting that cultural consciousness and what kind of people get into leadership positions are entirely unrelated, which they aren't, you've got nothing.