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this post was submitted on 15 Apr 2024
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Well, the problem is it isn’t “either/or.” It’s “both or just one.”
Trump will be worse for Palestine, believe it or not. I mean, that isn’t hard to believe, it’s just hard to swallow that those are the choices. But it’s the one we’re stuck with.
Oh that is simply not true. Trump CAN'T be worse for Palestine.
Biden has done every single thing Netanyahu asked him to. After six months of Genocide there are still not a single weapons restriction and Biden is rushing as many weapons as he can to israel. And Biden condones every single one of the Genocidal war crimes openly. And vetoes any condemnation of israel.
The worst Trump can do is the same as Biden.
That’s a naive thing to think. Beyond naive.
Biden is actually kind of concerned with trying to appear like he cares. He kinda has to. It’s for selfish reasons, of course, he is still a politician. But Democratic voters aren’t just rank-n-file voters like republicans. And they’re not all wanting the most cruel thing to happen. Republicans voters almost universally are.
The US supports Israel. Like, the country. The machinery. Not Biden or trump or even Bernie, in that hypothetical situation. It’s a massive moneyed machine that probably just one dude couldn’t decide to stop—even if that person were president.
I’d vote for another country too, for another order, if I could. But we can’t. You’re voting for genocide or genocide. But one of those genocides comes with a slew of other problems for vulnerable communities at home. And that same one comes with a petulant fascist with harm on the brain and a rabid fan base wanting to tear trans people limb from limb and stick women back in the 1940s and just open up he earth and suck out whatever regardless of the consequences. We have minutes until midnight on the climate emergency. Even a slow descent into turmoil is better than throwing everything we can into the fires.
Being a one-issue voter, especially in 2024, is so incredibly shortsighted and…I’m sorry, but selfish. You’re willing to throw MORE Palestinians, trans people, women, the environment all into the shitpile for, I’m sorry, your personal sense of purity.
We all get it, what is happening in Palestine is beyond horrifying. It’s genocide. No argument, there. But even a president who has to make a few speeches and small demands on how Israel is “starting to concern” or whatever gestures Biden has to make for optics, is better than a vindictive, bloodthirsty bigot who will, believe it or not, be more cruel if and when he can. That shouldn’t be hard to believe, but it is hard to wrap your head around when the topic is supporting genocide.
Dude what? Even past hardcore Republicans like George Bush have been far stronger against israel than Biden.
This utter delusion that Biden can't do anything to stop israel is some Blue Maga mental gymnastics.
Biden is ideologically motivated to support this Genocide. He is willing to throw away the entire election for it.
There is literally a video of Trump bragging to random Jews in Mar a Lago that he got them more Palestinian land during his presidency. Trump's only criticisms have been delusions that "October 7th wouldn't have happened because Hamas wouldn't dare piss me off" and telling Israelis "You guys have to fix the optics of what you're doing because you are losing public support." He doesn't give a fuck about the genocide - he just wants it done more quietly so fewer people notice and get upset.
Thats great there's literally a video of Joe Biden exclaiming he is a ZIonist. And promises unwavering support to israel and proceeding to supply them with unlimited weapons to commit Genocide with.
There is also a video of the Biden administration claiming that israel has never violated international humanitarian law since oct7
There is a difference.
...but I expect you couldn't care less and just want to dissuade people from voting for Biden so Trump can lead the US into Fascism.
So you think something that last happened nearly 40 years ago is relevant to how the world order seems to work today? Like, that’s literally right after the beginning of the deregulation spree that has lasted…through today.
So much has changed in these last few decades. That just seems like a disingenuous comparison.
And look, I’m not a democrat. I’m a near lifelong third party voter actually. But I voted third party in 2016 and I felt…guilty. For the first time in my life. It made me seriously question why I voted third party. I’m an anarchist. But I’m also a realist. And I don’t want people I know and care for and groups I see struggle every day to be thrown into the fire because it means I get to hold my head up high and say I’m above it. You and I probably agree on a whole lot, actually. But on this issue, one I’ve thought about for most of my life at this point, logically I can’t come to another conclusion—even if my confidence in this position wavers from time to time. Because I don’t support Biden. I know the democrats are a problematic organization that actually fueled the surge to the right. They actually profited from trump, so they have a vested interest in running against him over and over. Or getting him back in office, honestly. They raised so much money when trump was in office. Even when the republicans held both chambers and the White House, the democrats were amassing power by virtue of having a boogeyman.
I know the path we’re on is due to the constant “lesser of two evils” choice we’re given. And it won’t lead us out of it. But neither will allowing trump and his true fascist party to get their hands back on the levers of power. More radical right wing Christo-fascist judges, probably another Supreme Court seat if a Republican is put back in office because I guarantee you Thomas will retire under the next Republican president. But maybe he’ll die in the next four years with a democrat in office. Think of how many harmful rulings that could stop.
The genocide issue is the worst situation we could have to navigate. And it’s the worst one to have to put any sort of support behind. But it’s not the only issue. Right now, women have some states in which they can go for an abortion. That number is decreasing. What will women and the babies they don’t want do then? Trans people have some safe havens and some supporters in the democrats. Get the most vindictive, hot-button issue button presser back in office? That is suddenly much less meaningful when those supporters are just shouting into the void. Not to mention the climate emergency. Which…I can’t even imagine what four more years of trump appointments to the EPA would do.
The choice to not vote for Biden isn’t doing the Palestinian people any good. In fact, it’ll probably be much, much worse for them under trump. You think it can’t get worse? It very much can. And it absolutely will if trump is the one they have in office. No more even subtle pressure from the US to try to salvage our own image. Just full steam ahead.
I say again, it’s a selfish decision to throw your hands up and say “I can’t vote to protect people because what would that say about me?”
It can't be worse for them under Trump, and if genocide costs Biden the election, maybe, just maybe, next time a president has the choice to fuel a genocide, they will think twice.
That’s so foolish. Things can absolutely get worse. And they would. There is some element of shame involved with the democrats, at least. Or, more an awareness of the optics. So that brings a level of hesitation and reticence to the support. And that actually matters. Bring someone with no shame and a slobbering throng of hateful, vocal supporters into the mix? How can you be so deluded to think that wouldn’t be worse.
We all get it, the situation right now isn’t one we can support. But pushing a big boulder 10ft with teamwork and some simple machinery is much easier and somewhat doable, as opposed to pushing that same boulder 10,000ft with one hand, against the wind of a hurricane. The democrats are vulnerable on this. The republicans are not. Because they are immune to shame. They are immune to global pressure. To constituent input. To the concept of appearing somewhat decent.
It’s not a good situation. In fact, it’s a bad situation. But it can always get worse.
And that’s before we even discuss women’s healthcare, trans healthcare, the environment, appointing judges and justices, etc. There’s no other answer that could justify throwing all of the groups vulnerable to these issues under the bus. And even if it were like you say, that the Palestine situation can’t get any worse? You’d be literally throwing all of these groups under the bus for more of the same in Palestine anyway. So by your own logic, it makes sense to keep republicans out of office. So, conversation over, basically.
You're ignoring the cost of establishing a norm that genocide isn't beyond the pale.
I’d disagree. The world won’t stop spinning if you make this valiant gesture. Everything will continue on as normal. Not voting doesn’t send a clear message. They’ll have analysts analyzing “what happened” for years. But nowhere will it be made clear that the one issue you decided to throw your hands up on everything else about was the actual reason you didn’t vote. It won’t change anything. Except for you not making a decision.
It’s not a pleasant reality. But it’s the only one we have.
It will be crystal clear. The uncommitted vote in Michigan made it clear. If Biden loses in November, the whole world will know exactly why. And Biden will have no one to blame but himself. It's not a pleasant reality.
That’s incredibly wishful thinking. Remember 2016? How many years afterward were outlets still discussing “how did this happen?!” It was “working class whites” and it was “trump tapped into pro-worker rhetoric” and it was “Hillary didn’t visit michigian and Pennsylvania” and it was Cambridge analytica and it was anti establishment sentiments and blah blah blah. Things aren’t always as clear as you’d like them to be. Analysts actually study this shit and…I think you’d be surprised how not universal among the American voting populace this idea that Palestine is a major issue actually is. Most people don’t vote on issues. Or, if they do, it’s about a lot of issues. Single issue voters aren’t so ubiquitous in the data points. Because how exactly are you going to convey that this issue was the issue that changed your mind?
Yeah, it can start to feel that way for us younger generations because we live online. But the majority of people don’t interact with politics this way. And those of us that do aren’t represented fully when the thinkpieces get written. The “uncommitted” movement in he primaries was a calculated effort to send a message, but it’s been repeated over and over how that attitude shouldn’t carry over into the general. So that momentum is now completely gone and that explanation for not voting for Biden is lost.
You never responded to my point above though. If it’s the same for the Palestinian people either way, how can you justify sacrificing the communities trump and the republicans will target?
I assume that means you have no answer?
Trump would be more inclined to escalate.
In fact, Trump has said Israel should escalate. I believe the phrase he used was "finish the job".
Trump says Israel has to get war in Gaza over ‘fast’ and warns it is ‘losing the PR war’
It's interesting that you read something different in that. Trump says that they need to hurry up and finish what they started. That's not a good thing.
It's interesting that you took the out of context quote you saw on a random lib outlet and do the same thing conservatives do when they repeat whatever out of context BS they hear Biden say on Fox News. Repeat it without ever looking at the context. Literally two sides of the same coin.
This was one of the weird moments Trump didn't bow down to Netanyahu.
A similar moment was when every lib propaganda paper quoted Trump saying "It's gonna be a bloodbath if Biden wins". Really gets the libs scared enough to keep voting for Genocide. Until you read the actual quote where Trump is talking about the car industry.
But hey. I debunked disinformation about orange man. Which now must mean I am a Russian troll and I must looooove Trump.