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What kind of institutional gaslighting is this?
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this post was submitted on 29 Apr 2024
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Work Reform
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A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.
Our Philosophies:
- All workers must be paid a living wage for their labor.
- Income inequality is the main cause of lower living standards.
- Workers must join together and fight back for what is rightfully theirs.
- We must not be divided and conquered. Workers gain the most when they focus on unifying issues.
Our Goals
- Higher wages for underpaid workers.
- Better worker representation, including but not limited to unions.
- Better and fewer working hours.
- Stimulating a massive wave of worker organizing in the United States and beyond.
- Organizing and supporting political causes and campaigns that put workers first.
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I hear some countries in Asia are CRAZY bad for these kind of expectations and have been for a long time.
Oh absolutely. In Japan for example if you are unable to work or you get removed from your career, it is socially understandable for you to consider suicide. Lots of Japanese citizens put their job before even their families or the potential of having a family.
It's actually pretty fuckin crazy what Japanese work culture does to their citizens.
I've been reading Graeber's Bullshit Jobs and evidently they don't fire people in Japan. If they want rid of you, they just give you less and less to do until you're sitting in the office all day getting paid to do nothing, and the cultural expectation is that you quit out of shame rather than just accepting money for nothing.
How do I get one of those jobs as a WFH employee in the United States? I'll gladly accept my shame.
Oh I'm so ashamed. Whatever will I do. Please don't pay me MORE money that would make the shame even greater!
Oh no, not a bonus! The shame, it burns!
It only works for cultures where individuals have to sepukku if they bring shame on family.
In the USA, bringing shame upon family is considered a rite of passage so it doesn't quite have the same effect
I wouldn't recommend anyone become a software engineer but its worked for me
Heh. I already am that, but I do have to work. It's not as hard as when I was digging ditches for a living, but it's definitely still work. Sometimes it's slow, sometimes there's a million things to do.
I'll be honest, I don't know if I have to work. I do, because I like the work and I like the company I work for a lot, but I'm fairly confident that I could just show up to meetings twice a week and fudge paperwork for quite a while before anyone caught on that I'm just a hole they're dumping money into.
That's a pretty sweet gig then.
yeah, I've been really fortunate.
Where do I sign up?
I wonder if this also has something to do with the company itself avoiding shame too. Like firing an employee is a sign of weakness, that you hired someone like that in the first place? Or potentially a difference in benefits or a pension that they have to pay?
That's a thought I had as well, and based on my extremely limited knowledge and research I think it's the conflict that's being avoided. Rather than dealing with the person directly, you use indirect actions that signal the expected result when taken in that social context and then let the pressure of those expectations generate the result you need without you ever directly doing anything. My understanding is that the pressure is pretty enormous, your coworkers will basically shun you out of fear of being targeted themselves and resentment for all the work you're not doing that they have to pick up instead.
Geez.. how about my workload drops to zero and I commit sudoku instead?
Look up China's 669 practice. South Korea is also known for having an especially brutal work culture. The two manage to make even Japan's work culture look almost reasonable by comparison (Japan famously requiring long hours and lifelong dedication to your employer).