272
The ‘AOC Left’ Has Achieved Plenty
(nymag.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2023
272 points (90.5% liked)
politics
19103 readers
1836 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
So ... all capitalism is fascism; therefore "both sides are the same"; therefore reject incremental progress as illegitimate?
Incremental progress is not illegitimate. It’s just never going to be enough to solve the problem that is capitalism. If it were, the New Deal would have fixed this system and we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Ok....so because the New Deal didn't... overthrow capitalism forever.... therefore working within the system is pointless?
Yes 🙌 . Read Reform or Revolution by Rosa Luxemburg to understand why.
And the Nordic countries just don't exist?
Social democracies aren’t socialism. They have unions, co-ops, but they don’t own the means of production. They are capitalism with heavy regulation and strong social policies. And they are already regressing. If we were a more socially democratic, my opinion might be different, But, historically, the reality that capitalism decays into fascism would still be true.
Why do you assume that socialist systems won't also experience a gravitational pull towards fascism? In my opinion that's universal across all political systems. Also aren't all extant "state owns the means of production" counties quite fascist?
Wow, you’re really going there. I agree with your thinking. I think of it this way. Would I rather deal with climate change under a capitalist/fascist dictatorship with overconsumption and excess growth. Or would I rather deal with climate change under a tankie dictatorship with a planned economy that limits consumption and growth. I’ll pick the Marxist Leninist one. I’d rather it be an anarcho communist one. But with multiple factions vying for power and trying to control huge populations, that may not be possible.
So, do we agree that climate policy has been mixed-bag both in "The West" and China? (Everybody is touting their green tech while still building new fossil fuel extraction and plants)
Even if you were sure a tankie government would deliver better on climate change, what are the odds that "the revolution" leads to a full fascist government instead?
Surely the Right outguns us 10 to 1?
India has said they won’t stop developing until they have the same standard of living as the west. I’m willing to live under fascism if my kids can survive on this planet. That’s not even a difficult choice.
Yeah, the international politics of climate are absolute shit. I think we have to survive and resist this worldwide lurch rightwards before that will change.
At least read what he posted before replying. We don't need to build another reddit where people just rage at each other on behalf of their team.
For the record, when I posted that reply the parent only read "yes 🙌"
I was saltier than I would like to be in retrospect though, I cut it out of a comment.