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submitted 6 months ago by ylai@lemmy.ml to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[-] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 90 points 6 months ago

For the curious (and lazy):

According to repair biz iFixit, the issue with the power-frugal LPDDR memory chips is that the lower voltage they operate at calls for more attention to be paid to signal integrity between the CPU and memory. In practice, this has meant shorter track distances on the circuit board, leading to LPDDR being soldered down as close to the processor as possible.

LPCAMM2 is intended to address this by putting LPDDR onto a circuit board module that is "cleverly designed to mount right up next to the CPU," with "very short traces to help maximize signal integrity," the iFixit team explains in a blog and video detailing their hands-on with the ThinkPad P1 Gen 7.

[-] TimeSquirrel@kbin.social 76 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

the lower voltage they operate at calls for more attention to be paid to signal integrity between the CPU and memory

And they aren't kidding around, modern high speed signals are so fast that a millimeter or less of difference in length between two traces might be enough to cause the signals to arrive at the other end with enough time skew to corrupt the data.

Edit: if you ever looked closely at a circuit board and seen strange, squiggly traces that are shaped like that for seemingly no reason, it's done so that the lengths can be matched with other traces.

[-] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 47 points 6 months ago

A millimeter is huge in these situations. USB3 requires 5 mil tolerances, just over 0.1 mm. This scales with the inverse of data rate.

Electronics are so fast that we gotta take the speed of light into account. God help you if you put too sharp a bend in a trace, too ...

[-] itsmect@monero.town 12 points 6 months ago

USB3 is quite forgiving regarding the layout. The standard +-10% impedance matching is fine, and because there is no dedicated clock line you don't need to do length matching either. Even differential pair length mismatch is not that big of a deal. If 0.1mm is easy to archive, sure go for it, but I'd rather compromise on this in favor of more important parameters.

[-] gregorum@lemm.ee 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

So, does it just have really advanced error checking? How does it handle the mismatches? I believe you, it’s just that the phrase “not that big of a deal” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

[-] itsmect@monero.town 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

The signal does not care about how it gets from the sender to the receiver. The only thing that matters is that at the receivers end 0s and 1s can be separated. One common measurement is the eye pattern. If the eye is "open" enough (=matches the spec), communication is possible.

Impedance mismatch causes reflections (visible as oscillation after rising/falling edge), differential pair line mismatch degrades the slop of the signal transition (rising/falling edge). Geometric features only matter if they are large compared to the signal wavelength. As a rule of thumb features smaller then 1/20th of a wavelength can be safely ignored, often times a ratio as large as 1/5 works just fine. USB3 uses 2.5Ghz (5Gbit/s) or 5Ghz (10Gbit/s), where 1/20th result in 3.4mm and 1.7mm respectively (assuming an effective dialectic of 3.17). This is still grossly simplified, because in many real systems you don't control the entire transmission line (eg. user buys a random cable and expects it to work), so it makes sense that the USB consortium specifies eye patterns and factors in various system uncertainties.

RAM on the other hand uses 16/32/64/128 single ended data lines, with a dedicated clock line. Data does not have to arrive perfectly at the same time, but the margin may be as little as 1/10th of a clock cycle. Here accurate length matching is absolutely required. Its also the reason why the same CPU + RAM combination may archive higher stable clock rates on some mainboards then on others.

[-] gregorum@lemm.ee 1 points 6 months ago

Ok, wow. Thank you for educating me on a great deal I didn’t know when I asked the question. And while it does a great deal to bridge that gap… the question remains unanswered: how is this breakthrough achieved?

[-] itsmect@monero.town 1 points 6 months ago

Which breakthrough do you mean? Can you rephrase your question?

[-] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

That's why serial busses won over parallel ones I guess.

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this post was submitted on 08 May 2024
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