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Someone stop the ride, I want to get off
(midwest.social)
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this post was submitted on 22 May 2024
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Its very simple.
If you think it's bad now, for you, for Palestinians, for whoever, wait until Trump is in power. He'll commit actual genocide, as in wipe them all out, as he claimed anyways, he'll install himself as a dictator, as he claimed, and I'm not even starting with that Republican 2025 document that would like to make America into Gilead.
So shit up, swallow your pride, vote Biden. as soon as Biden is elected, protest all you want, block roads, whatever, but for now, vote Biden if you want the world to at least survive the next four years semi recognizably.
An actual genocide is happening right now. If biden doesn't feel pressured to stop the genocide at the risk of losing votes in an election year, what makes you think he'll stop it when he's not at any risk of losing the election?
Several genocides are going on right now, and have been for decades, almost like it's got nothing to do with who's in charge in the US or something.
I don't think he'll stop. But from a practical standpoint you're voting between the status quo level of genocide, and an even GREATER level of genocide. Voting for MORE genocide is objectively worse.
Odds are better for Biden. Slim is better than none.
Get it clear: this isn't a vote about Biden. It's a vote about America and it's a clean binary choice between two bad options; one worse than the other. If you don't choose the far-less-worse imperfect option, you need to be okay with the worse imperfect option if it should emerge victorious.
The city is on fire and people are arguing whether we should vote for the shitty fire fighter in the fire chief election when the only other candidate is literally an arsonist
The odds aren't slim for biden stopping this, it's simply zero. Democrats rely on republicans being worse so that they have an excuse to do nothing. If you have two parties, one that preserves the status quo and the other that makes things worse, then things are only going to get worse because republicans are eventually going to win in our intentionally broken system.
You're vastly overestimating the power the US has. We can't even get our allies to stop funding Russia and selling them advanced technology.
The only people capable of stopping what is happening in Gaza are Netanyahu and the Israeli people.
The US is directly sending billions in support to israel. In fact, many of our allies in Europe are doing so much more for the Palestinians than the US. You'd have a point if the US weren't the #1 direct supporter of israel. Do you think the US is sending billions of dollars directly to Russia?
Yeah, but Biden's not the one committing it. Biden is an incidental element of a much larger apparatus and if that apparatus is primarily meant to commit this particular genocide, he's not a particularly effective one.
Literally nothing. No one is arguing that borderline unconditional support will make Biden change his mind. Why would you even ask? On the other hand, if making Biden think he's gonna lose won't sufficiently motivate him, then threatening to not vote is just an ineffective strategy. Your premise undermines the conclusion you seem to be hinting at.
Hey, did you know gullible is written on the ceiling?
I always like to ask in these circumstances if they send over the aid and the bombs on the same ship
You stupid Americans really think you and especially your president can command any foreign government to do what you want, right?
How are you a leftist with that kind of imperialist worldview?
You’re probably a groiper troll trying to badmouth liberals anyway
This would be a funny bit if you weren't being sincere.
Israel is the west's vehicle for imperialism in the middle east. It was created by the British through imperialist action and the US has been one of the biggest supporters since. So yes, the US has a huge say in what Israel can do because Israel owes its entire existence to the US and the west at large. If Israel feels so mighty and independent, then they're free to return the hundreds of billions in aid that we've given them and to stop receiving the billions we send them every single year and to not have us fight wars for them.
Israel is practically an American vassal state (or the other way lmfao all things considered) so the USA has a very material power in stopping it
This is about preserving a system that's at least recoverable in it's current state. If you don't vote for Biden your voting for an authoritarian regime and it's not even an exaggeration. Trump just had a promo video referencing a new Reich in America.
This is the easiest decision American voters have ever had. Go look up what happened when Trump was in power for 4 years and what has happened with Biden for 4 years. We have data on how they both acted in power. That's incredibly rare. Compare them objectively.
Moral high ground about Israel, while correct, is a hill compared to the mountain of evidence that shows what has happened and will continue to happen under trump if he returns to power. State secrets for sale, supreme Court seats, threats to never relinquish power, codified laws hunting down women who seek abortions, laws against trans and gays, j6 insurrection....you're actively supporting that by not standing against trump.
Abstaining from voting for Biden this fall is a vote for Trump in a first past the post system. You will be complicit. You will literally be responsible for violence against minorities having played an active part in helping trump return to power. It's hypocritical to allow that while condemning Biden on Israel.
I get it, I promise. I didn't vote for Hillary or Trump in 2016 and I see now what that ended up doing to our country. I regret it. I won't do it again.
It's impossible to reconcile your disgust for Israeli support from America with the violence you will permit to minorities in America if you don't vote for Biden. You're not wrong for hating it, but you must realize what you're going to do to people with a no vote or a throwaway vote.
Democrats preserve the status quo while republicans push things further to the right. Since our system guarantees that both parties will win at different times, the trajectory is always to the right. I'm voting for democrats down the entire ballot like I do every single election, but it will ultimately not make a meaningful difference. Democrats are using minorities as a shield for their own failings and inaction. If you don't vote for democrats then they claim it's your fault for whatever situation minorities find themselves in, but democrats do the bare minimum they can for minorities when they do get voted in. You're providing a prime example when you use minorities in the US as an excuse to change the subject from genocide in Palestine.
"Identity politics" is a loaded term, but democrats will absolutely play different disadvantaged groups against one another to stop progress. They did it in 2016 when Bernie was talking about the need to help poor people and democrats came out with "but what about poor black people?!" even though democrats don't do shit for poor black people either and as if poor black people aren't included in the group of poor people.
The older I get the more I realize that the only way to change anything is to be a massive, endlessly annoying prick. Sure, vote or whatever, but if you don't like the options provided I think the least (literally the least) one can do is to - and this will sound silly - relentlessly meme on centrists to agitate them to do something.
even the ancient romans understood that a solid anonymous dunk posted on a statue can sometimes be the most agitative kind of messaging.
It's far from the only thing but you have to come far enough left to get your guns back.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, as the saying goes. My only hope as far as voting goes is that democrats get a majority so large that they can't just conveniently flip two senators to continue to do nothing. I feel like democrats purposefully eek out the smallest victories they can so they can pretend to be powerless. It's either that or they're ridiculously incompetent, neither inspire confidence. They're just too good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Regardless, their excuses and lack of results will be even more flagrant if they're given a huge majority.
I suspect that there's a lobbying pool, and as the majority grows the reward for flipping sides gets bigger.
I think it would be bad but a little funny if democrats split their tickets, and they get a supermajority in congress but lose the presidency or vice-versa. They'd get nothing done and shit would get worse, but it'd probably mitigate the worst of the damage and they'd be trying to analyze what went wrong for a decade.
I'm literally pointing out your hypocrisy. I'd rather noone one be suffering from a fanatical authoritarian figure be that netenyahu or Trump, but it isn't a super secret centrist agenda to point out that you will be furthering the suffering of people domestically to make yourself feel good about protesting something that will happen under trump or Biden regardless.
Soapboxing about Democrats doing nothing is demonstrably false, the population has moved farther left quicker than the government, obviously. government is slow. But politics has always trended more progressive than it was in the past. The populace has to drag it kicking and screaming, but it does happen.
I'm probably further left than you, I'm further left than most people. Socialism, Karl Marx, anti capitalism, and French razor blades type stuff.
It doesn't make me centrist to protect lgbtq folks and women at home with my vote. The fact that you're salty that I'm pointing that fact out and you feel for some reason that that isn't a meaningful difference is a you problem. I'm not here making excuses for the status quo to continue, it's just the facts that we need to do that for now during this election to help the most people possible and your ignoring that.
I can vote for Biden and still criticize him and socially be part of a collective voice that is screaming for change. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Your saying minorities have been a pawn for centrists to use, but your ideology is suggesting that it would be better to ignore them and allow violence against them to continue and ramp up under trump. All because other people are suffering, who, tragically, will continue to suffer regardless of the president. That's insane and morally dispicable.
At least your still voting for Biden even if you don't believe anything I'm explaining so thank fuck for that
It's a war.
This.
Again, irrelevant.
Biden isn't doing much (not enough anyway) to stop this but AGAIN... There is bad and there is MUCH MUCH FORKING WORSE.
What part of trump do you not understand? Do you want Palestinians eradicated from the world or what? I don't get you people. You want things better for Palestinians, awesome! Me too. Now, how do we get there? "Let's make sure trump gets in office!!!" WTF?
What part of biden can do something about this do you not understand? I'm already doing my part by voting for biden. Now what is biden going to do about genocide? Remember genocide, the thing that's supposed to be unthinkable? Yet here you are defending biden fully supporting it.
If you vote biden, great. Anything better than Trump, at this point.
Having said that... I think biden would like to do more but can't. Why? Politics. Large Jewish population that may not vote for him if he pushes back against Israel and if he loses the vote, again, Trump will be in power and believe you me, Palestinians will wish you voted Biden. There may be a swath of other reasons, but from what I've seen from the guy, I think he'd like to do more but right now can't.
That is my personal feelings on him, he may just as well like what's going on, we don't know for sure.
What I do know for sure is that Palestinians will be wiped out of Trump gets into power, he'll give the Israeli government a carte blanch to go full murder rape genocide on the Palestinians.
That is how they teach negotiation in school