this post was submitted on 25 May 2024
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Sure, but those regulations have to be stuff like "no selling petroleum to people for their cars". Are you ready for a carless world? I am. If you're not ready, you might find yourself opposing the necessary regulation when the time does come to regulate.
I don't know why these discussion are often met with "if you're not ready to lose your car you're the problem" narrative.
I might not be ready to lose my car but I sure as hell am ready to lose coal based electricity, the military complex, single use plastic, billionaire who prefer to let a train derail than spend money on regulations, and a shit ton other things that wouldn't even affect my day to day life other than make it safer.
That's great, but EmperorHenry said regulation would stop 99% of emissions. I can assure you that personal vehicles and animal agriculture represent more than 1% of emissions. If we're talking about a 20%, 50%, maybe even 70% reduction, then your argument is fine. But we need a 100% reduction in order to save the species. I'm ready for 100%, are you?
“We can’t do 100% so why are we talking about 20%?”
We can do 100%. You pessimists need to start thinking bigger. We can do it.
Personal vehicles and animal agriculture are responsible for way more than 30% of emissions, it would be impossible to get 70% reduction without touching them. 100% reduction is not possible, necessary, or desirable, some industry is necessary to maintain basic necessities.
I think what you're trying to say is that it's necessary to address personal vehicles and animal agriculture to adequately address climate change, which is true and valid. But the way you've phrased it comes across as unreasonable.
Neurotypicals are so picky. I deliberately tell them 70% might be possible just to seem extra reasonable and concilatory, and it's still not enough.
I'm not NT but maybe I can give some advice, constructive criticism as someone who agrees with your overall point.
I think being generous on that point backfired because it made the other changes seem less necessary. It meant being more insistent on other points, which are more subjective, like, "exactly where do you draw the line between sacrificing for the environment vs maintaining quality of life?" It's better to be generous on questions like that while sticking to your guns on facts you can support with data.
It could also help to point out that lifestyle changes are something people can do right now, while regulations have to go through political processes with lots of money working against them.
Also I just realized you may have been referencing carbon neutrality when you say "100% reduction." The way I (and I think others) interpreted it was not "net zero emissions" but just "zero emissions." The planet removes some carbon naturally, so it's ok to have some pollution, we don't need to go back to living in mud huts or anything. The question is, where can we get the most bang for our buck in reducing overall emissions to bring us closer to net zero, and the answers are the things you mentioned.
Yeah, I meant carbon neutrality. Carbon neutrality is the first step to preventing runaway climate collapse. When we reach carbon neutrality, it'll keep getting hotter, but the rate at which it gets hotter won't be increasing anymore. We need to be carbon negative in order to prevent further warming.
We're still going to need to have some emissions, like from farting, but meat and cars are easy to get rid of. Those changes actually have a negative cost, because cars and meat are already bad for reasons besides climate change. I got rid of them and it was easy and it made my life better.
I would want to get rid of meat and cars before we get rid of things like intercontinental container ships. Those ships are actually super efficient for the amount of cargo they carry, and I think intercontinental trade is an absolute necessity. The main problem with container ships is just how much disposable garbage we're shipping and how much we've moved away from local industry. But intercontinental industry is definitely going to be a necessity in some ways if we want to have an advanced society. Cheeseburgers? Not so much.
Based. I've also cut out meat and got rid of my car (have had to rent/borrow bc reasons) and yeah I agree with you 100%.
Can we hit 100% if we sacrifice annoying pedants like you?
No, because we have lower emissions than annoying car drivers like you.
Are we just going to act like electric vehicles don't exist or that the quality of EVs would be significantly higher if the current fuel and car industry wasn't hindering their development at every turn?
I get the feeling you're just on some ego trip about how you're ready to return to nature, while the rest of the lower classes around the world aren't ready to go as far as you are, despite the fact that it's not even necessary.
Our infrastructure and our technology can change and evolve to co-exist and support the environment much better. People can retain many of their modern convivences of life while preserving nature. It will be more expensive for the wealthy at the top, more time consuming, and perhaps not exactly the same, but it can be done.
No, I'm trans. I need to take hormones every day or I'll want to kill myself. I wear glasses and I can't do without them. I love processed food, as long as it's vegan. Instant ramen and potato crisps make up a significant portion of my diet. I can't do without the internet. Constant information and stimulation keep the voices in my head quiet enough to be bearable. I love technology, there's no place for me in a primitive world. I'd die.
I know. And cars aren't the way. Cars are destructive to communities, they kill people with startling regularity, and even when they're working properly on an electric battery they release PM10 pollution that gives kids asthma and allergies, and they stunt cognitive development for the people inside them.
The answer is public transit and bicycles. We don't need to return to monke, we need to build cross continental high speed rail. The technologies to make our lives better exist and they're not cars. Not even electric cars.
My apologies for assuming then. It genuinely came off as pretentious and I'm sorry for misunderstanding.
I also wasn't aware of the side effects and dangers that even EVs had. I agree that public transit should be invested in more, but I at least thought using EVs as a transition phase would help.
Electric cars are only an effective solution if we're waiting around for capitalism to fix our problems. Which we shouldn't be doing. If the government is actually putting in an effort, then it's more cost effective and faster to build trains and trams and rail. Electric cars let people do a little more good in a world where nobody else is. But they're not the future, not a future we can look forward to. The EVs of the future are trains, bicycles, trams, buses, scooters, skateboards, fire engines, and ambulances.
Living carfree makes my life better. But people don't realise that. I say "you better be ready like me", and you think I'm an anprim. Nah, I love technology. And I also like getting exercise when I go places like nature intended. I like the vitamin D, I like the cortisol, I like the lack of guilt. I like bringing my bike on the train and playing with my phone on the way. I like never needing to seriously worry about parking. I like knowing I'm not part of the problem. And I really like knowing that no matter how badly I fuck up, I'll never get someone else killed through carelessness.
The future is awesome! Walkable neighbourhoods and a public transit system the government actually invests are amazing. I'm very lucky to live somewhere that both of those are true. It's great in the future, come over here!
But psychologically, people are stubborn. They're scared of change. They'll resist it. People don't know what's good for them, they only know what's comfortable. So come join us in the future now, don't wait, and don't risk the possibility that you'll end up an old fart holding the human race back with your reliance on the technology of the past.
Yes and stop selling bullshit electric vehicles, there is already the solution: public transport
Electric vehicles are another boost to the super rich car industry
Unfortunately we do still need cars. Mostly for things like farm use and last mile transportation. Having everyone live in a city near a train line is a great idea but you it definitely won't happen. Electric cars is the compromise we need to make with people in rural areas
Ok, but that is not the target group electric cars are targeting, see all Tesla models
Including "cyber truck" (always makes me chuckle to think that they are really trying to sell that crap)
Edit:typos
Yeah Elon musk is a cuck and I'm not advocating for any specific manufacturer but realistically we will need some cars in the future no matter what. So I'd rather them be electric
That's exactly the problem, you should be able to
Wow. Such a martyr. Willing to stay at home forever because they have been told individual cars have an impact towards climate change that you don't believe in.
People would rather the world burn than be inconvenienced even a little.
Nobody said "no cars". I'd like to see much fewer cars, and public transport that almost everyone can use.