I don't care what you guys think just stop trying to convince people that the choices they make are wrong. Everyone has different use cases and different requirements.

"stable" just means deal with different issues that are often more confusing, annoying, and don't exist anywhere ese like outdated libraries that don't work with concurrent git projects.

Trying to get any non free software working in an intuitive manor when the internet doesn't even work out of the box and your looking at a 4 year old version of gnome for one of your first forays outside of Ubuntu. I'm sure that recommendation works out real nice for newcomers. So fucking annoying to take advice like that and barely manage to install it just for it to be a mess of expired ssl certificates and apt to not work when you finally managed to connect it to the Internet.

I downloaded it from the website how hard can it be to make it work out of the box. Give me a raw arch install anyday. At least I know what's even happening. Or at least give me something that works out of the box like fedora tries to do.

I'm sorry for any Debian fans I offended. It's great for a server but you gotta know something about the weird stuff Debian does to even understand how to coexist with it. Ubuntu became popular for a reason and it's annoying that it solves so many of Debian shortcomings but thems the breaks.

I don't like Ubuntu but Debian alright in my book it's a community thing and Debian users have their own language I can't speak. Most my computers just didn't run Debian, too new and buggy because of it.