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this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2024
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Greentext
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"whatever you want"... they wanted to be a respectful person.
Is saying the word retarded without calling some it disrespectful? Is it now a trigger word? I'm genuinely wondering. Because when we were growing up we used the word EVERYWHERE. It was as common as saying "fricken"
It's a slur, that's why. Some slurs are major slurs that are considered offensive even when it's not referring to someone, and I think this is one of them. They're often forbidden because of it, and a lot of people find it easier to follow universal rules than to check the rules of each place they post, because the universal rules will keep you in the clear 95% of the time. And even if not, it's still respectable to not want to use slurs.
And yeah, it did used to be a lot more common. And before that, it was a medical term. That's the way it goes, we have a word to insult people's intelligence, doctors deal with patients who have a disorder causing that, they don't want to use the mean word to refer to the patients, they come up with a new word for it, the word gets out, and then everyone makes it a new word to insult intelligence. Though this one seems to be taking a different track because it hit modern sensibilities, and at the same time I think doctors now know better than to come up with a new word for mental deficiencies.
It's the euphemism treadmill in action.
That's what it's called, okay. I didn't remember the term.
We used LOTS of words then that are now not ok to use. Growing as individuals and groups is a good thing, being attentive to others is a good thing, understanding that you see no offence to a word where others do and changing that behaviour betters everyone.
Nah, speech police is just a disguised form of fascism.
Dude, I don't think you understand what fascism is about. Telling someone something is wrong isn't fascism or saying murder is wrong would be fascism.
So the nazis didn't disappear people who said the wrong thing? And people wouldn't say the thing out of fear something might happen to them?
How different is that really? Did I use hyperbole? Sure. I still don't like it when people tell me how to speak my mind.
Who the hell is getting "disappeared?" Fascists use violence and force to enforce their beliefs. The also appealed to a mythos to support their idiology.
https://www.keene.edu/academics/cchgs/resources/presentation-materials/characteristics-and-appeal-of-fascism/download/
I think 13 is particularly relevant here: "Disdain for intellectuals and the arts not aligned with the fascist narrative." It is the people saying treating people kindly who are being attacked by Fascists. They tell people that the "woke left is attacking us and making us change" as a means to dismiss things trying to create change to better care for all people.
Fine. Most people don't like being told what they're doing is wrong. Those in favor of slavery and white supremacy get (or got) upset when asked to change as well. That doesn't make it acceptable.
If I start insulting you or using slurs against you, I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it. You are more upset at being told that you may upset others than actually willing to change to not hurt others. You don't want to be told you're insulting people because it's insulting to you. Do you see the issue? If you're hurt by being told not to hurt other people, maybe it's your actions that are the issue. Hypocracy isn't valorant.
OK, I don't think c/greentext is the proper environment to discuss this.
If you are that worked up about words you must lead a pretty good life.
I think I have used the Internet for too long to get upset about getting slurs hurled at me online. People are much more vile when cloaked by the anonymity of their keyboard. It's been like that since Usenet and BBSs. That's human nature. You're free to not interact.
But trying to police stuff you don't like just because "is enforcing your beliefs". Nobody will be harmed by edgy comments under a post about 4chan. Not everyone is out to get you and needs to be canceled.
I do, as I'm assuming all of us here mostly do, as we have access to electricity, computers, and the internet. I'm not worked up about it though. I'm trying to explain how something used in the past doesn't justify it being used in the present. I'm also trying to get you to empathize with other people. You're upset and don't like being upset. Great. Now apply that to the words you're using. See how they could upset others, and how others probably don't like being upset either.
I'm equally free to interact. You won't be harmed by me informing you how others may not appreciate the way you speak. You are free to be racist online and spread hate speech. Probably no one is going to be able to stop you if that's your desire. That would foster a bad community and may cause actual harm to people though, so we all recognize that it's wrong.
Now, when we recognize other marginalized people are also harmed by other language, we have two choices. We can choose to improve ourselves, or we can blame society for not being like it used to be. Racists chose the latter and are looked down on. Hopefully we can all continue to choose the the former as we grow in life. Just because we used to do things one way doesn't mean that was good, and having done bad things in the past doesn't make us bad. It's what we choose in the present that matters. Now, go forward in life and make your choices. I can't choose for you.
I guess we'll have to disagree on that. Since no one would be forced to participate no one should be harmed.
I am sure as an enjoyer of c/greentext you can appreciate the comedic value of such an unmoderated cesspool.
When someone affected chimes in and actual harm is potentially caused I might reconsider my foul mouth. I am not going to censor myself proactively to goose step in line. Every word we give up to whoever "uses it wrong" gives them power. I am not going to do that.
Good talk. Thanks for taking the time.
As someone who used 4chan a very long time ago, I appreciate the comedic value in how much of a cesspit it is, not because the people there are valuable. I spent a while there seeing death threads (threads of video/images of people dying) and all kinds of other messed up things. Do I assume those things are good things for people to see though? Absolutely not.
First, we aren't "losing" words because language changes. We gain many more instead.
Second, who's "them" that are gaining power. You seem to have an imaginary enemy you're fighting. I can promise you you'll lose because "they" aren't real. No one is trying to control you. They're only trying to keep you from harming other people. "They" also tell you not to assault people and you listen (I assume) despite it forcing you into a position you didn't choose yourself.
Being an asshole isn't something to be proud of just because you're sticking it to some made up enemy. You're choosing to let a made up enemy control you instead by fighting against them instead of making choices for yourself.
Are you hallucinating? What does anything you wrote have to do with what I said?
Maybe you should de-radicalize yourself, or idk, meet normal people irl.
I quoted exactly what I was referring to from your comment...
Also, you're one to talk. How about trying to not use ad hominems to try to dismiss someone's arguments just because you don't want to listen. If you have an issue understanding something, you can ask. I didn't say anything particularly complex though.
How is attempting to be polite radical? I'm not arguing I'm not "radicalized" (I pretty much am, and that's not an insult), but this isn't.
I think I have heard enough. Careful you might be a case for /c/meanwhileongrad
If you truly think I have to listen to you you're more delusional than I thought. I believe in IDIC. Just because I don't understand the way you think doesn't mean you aren't valuable.
I'm anti-authoritarianism, so no I don't fit there. Sorry. I'm just pro-kindness.
Where did I imply you have to listen to me? I'm pretty sure I explicitly said to make a choice for yourself. I just also said you can choose kindness and empathy, or you can choose selfishness because you are mad about change.
Good. People will assume you don't think they're valuable if you use their condition as an insult though. They'll assume that you think they're lesser, because you're saying being who they are is a bad thing. You understand how that could feel bad, right?
That's a good one.
dehumanizing people by stating they have no value is pro-kindness. News to me.
No, still think you are wrong. Have you heard black folk talk to each other, do they feel bad?
I know someone who would have been described as retarded in the past. I asked him, he doesn't mind, he doubts any sane person with his disability would mind.
So stop being retarded yourself and stop advocating for groups you are not a part of that don't want none of your screeching.
Coming into this instance, and stinking up the place. Other admins would have defederated, good thing we have a great admin.
(yes, hyperbole)
What? Quote me where I did that. I did not do that.
Wow, the "but they use that word!" argument. Context is important. Just like retard in music just means to slow down, how, when, and who uses words can change things.
Also, the "but I have a ___ friend" argument. Hitting all of the classics right now, aren't you? One person does not make rule. I've heard from others that they don't appreciate it.
Nice insults. Good argument. Which one of us is "screeching?"
I'll advocate for every group. All people are valuable
Other admins would have defederated from what? All other instances? I'm from a pretty small technology focused instance. You think your admin should defederated from us? Why? Because you don't like one person who's trying to get you to be a better person? Doesn't that seem a but much? Are you OK? You can talk about whatever's bothering you.
People used to use the n-word all the time, so it must be perfectly OK to say!
This is the exact same argument. It doesn't work, right? Why would it here? Sure, there may (I doubt it, but I'll leave the possibility open) be other reasons why it's OK to say, but throw that argument out.
The n-word did not have any other definitions. Something that is retarded is merely delayed or slowed down usually in the context of some task.
It did though? It was used for black things. The word literally means black.
I'm not on any side.
But what happens if the word black becomes a slur, or blue or yellow?
Would we give way to those who misuse those words? Let's not be complacent in letting others misuse language. Maybe it's time that we corrected these.
Niger is the Latin word for black (not to be confused with the unrelated niger, as in the nation, which is not Latin in origin). We had stopped using it in English for anything but to (negatively) refer to black people. It didn't have any use except as a negative one.
The same thing is true for the r-word, outside of specific contexts like music where to retard is to slow, as from Latin. Using them in the context of music or medicine is fine (which retard isn't used for a medical condition anymore, but when things slow I belive the term is still used, because Latin). Using it to refer to a person or thing a person does is not. That term is only used negatively, which implies neuro-divergent people are bad.
Yellow can be bad also. If you're referring to someone in a negative racist way as yellow, that's not accepted in society, and I don't think you'd disagree. You can still refer to the color, but to use it as an insult it's not good.
We aren't losing words. If they had any use outside of an insult, they still almost always still have those uses. We gain more words to better refer to people of these groups without insulting them though. Language evolves. Some words leave fashion and new ones come into fashion. I don't think we need to be worried about "losing" words where we have perfectly good alternatives to use instead.
Yeah you're not supposed to even say "my son's reading skills are somewhat retarded but we hope he can catch up to his peers". Or "Progess on Trump's border wall has been retarded for various reasons."
No kidding
Were the insults necessary or did they add anything useful to your comment?
As for the actual question in your comment, though your quick follow-up to insults suggests you meant it as a rhetorical question and just wanted to assume they were doing the same thing as they were criticizing, "fricken" (or "friggen") was used in many cases by kids who were scared of getting in trouble for using "real" swear words. Which was the whole point of that comment: kids who were afraid to really swear casually used "retard" and many adults who would lose their shit over "fucking" didn't bat an eye at "retard". And even when they did, it was because of the insult to the one called "retard". If anyone brought up mentally disabled people, it was more about furthering the insult rather than actually caring how they felt.
The other said what needed to be said. Do you talk to anyone the way you do? You do realize you're talking to real people with real life experiences. And if you used any critical thought you'd understand the innocence of using the word "fricken" or "friggen" in my comment was to illustrate that in our child community growing up, we used the retard word along with that. And it was almost never used to call someone that, it was used to call a situation that. Like "that's retarded let's not do that".
And yeah I don't use that word anymore as an adult.
"IDGI, this person has the option to be the worst version of themselves. Why dont they choose to do that?!? Also why does noone want to be around me? Could it be that marinating my brains in a writhing compost of clapbacks and dunks is desensitizing me to my own dehumanizing? No. Clearly this is because woke."