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this post was submitted on 06 Jun 2024
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A leftist that points out inequality inherent in the system? What a strange thing to encounter on Lemmy. I'm positively flummoxed as to how this came about.
If you ask anyone from .ml, I'm not even a leftist. I am pretty dead set against Donald, whereas they (and Bibi) want Donald elected.
Theu dont want Trump elected. They want Biden to actually do something to stop the genocide.
Jill Stein wants no war. your accusation is pure bad faith.
Jill Stein is not going to be president. Your assertion is in bad faith or ignorance.
you literally accused people who said they want Jill Stein to win of lying and actually wanting another candidate to win. that's bad faith.
no, they are saying they don't want any of that and voting against Republicans and Democrats at the same time.
No, they don't care who wins because they are privileged and think it won't affect them. No third party has ever come close to winning in the history of the country. It will not happen. So they are expressing that they're okay if it gets worse.
another bad faith statement. you need to ask them what they want, and believe their answer, or dialogue cannot progress.
Your (and their) arguments may not be in bad faith, but they are in conflict with objective reality.
They either believe Jill Stein will actually win, which is false based on all of US history, including the elections she already participated in.
Or they believe there is literally no difference for, say, women, when 1/3 of SCOTUS are religious extremists appointed by an insurrectionist. Or on climate. Or Ukraine. Or voting rights. Etc. The question "is a president allowed to break the law and do whatever" is somehow still open. Is that not completely insane?
I understand what they claim they are doing with the protest vote. But in actuality, they have looked at the difference and decided that it isn't much. That can only come from a position of privilege or extreme ignorance.
this is still putting words in their mouths. it's not good-faith engagement.
No, that's reality.
The other case I also pointed out is they might be unaware of the facts. You are engaging in bad faith by misrepresenting my words to form a what you think is a strawman to argue against.
stating your perspective about it doesn't make it reality. you need to actually listen to what people say, and if you think it's unrealistic, then you can say you think it's unrealistic, but you can't just assert that they can't possibly have any other motivations.
You didn't actually listen to what I said, you in fact deliberately and in bad faith edited out parts so that you could argue against what you want to argue against.
You have been stating your perspective all along that it is bad faith, asserting that there are no other motivations. You didn't actually listen to what I had to say, you just asserted a position.
I don't think you are taking this seriously. You are certainly picking and choosing which rules apply to whom. Why are we engaging at all?
because i objected to your bad faith characterization of another user's comments.
Please consider being honest about your bad faith characterization of my position, with respect to your own AI definition.
surely you can understand that the ai was not giving a complete definition, and you don't need to know that you are being dishonest in order to be engaging in bad faith. simply accusing others of lying about their own position is, itself, bad faith.
edit:
you seem to be alright with going along with copilot. when i asked
it said
i made your position more succinct. you provided two options and said they were the only possible explanations, then said "that's reality". you constructed a false dichotomy. there was no nuance to your comment that would have undermined this construction of your argument. your assumption of other peoples beliefs and motivations is a bad faith approach altogether.
No, you didn't. It's frustrating that you claim to be interested in intellectual integrity. You deliberately omitted or failed to read parts that you now claim have fulfilled your mission of honest discussion. You accused me of bad faith when the Copilot definition you wish to use explicitly says there must be intent. You claim to be in favor of honest and good faith discussion, but have only been interested in applying your rules to the parts of the discussion you don't like.
Anyway. We've probably wasted enough time talking past each other today. Good luck out there.
have a nice day
i asked copilot to weigh in on this. i have edited it for brevity (there was a lot of boiler-plate), but this is the last half or so completely unedited:
Thanks, Copilot. Can Copilot explain the other possible positions beyond "doesn't understand she won't win" and "doesn't believe or is unaware there is a difference between the two who will win?" You are not providing other options, maybe Copilot could explain it to me.
well i am not interested in getting bogged down in defending any particular motivation, i'm only trying to keep the conversation intellectually honest. it seems that you understand, now, that there might be other motivations, and as such that your previous accusations were in fact bad faith.
what straw man?
She'll be President if you vote for her
No, she won't. And hopefully I voted for viable candidates down the sheet because I'll have lost that vote.
She'll be president if enough voters to overwhelm the EC's red shift vote for her. Which will not happen with FPTP. There are 46 examples of this not happening over a couple hundred of years. Including her, specifically, in 2012 and 2016.
Leftists carrying water for fascists? Definitely not a strange thing to encounter both on Lemmy and in history.
Some of us have moved beyond team sports and are now questioning the game.