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Today Senate Republicans blocked a measure that would have created a federal right to contraception access (joycevance.substack.com)

submitted 4 months ago by mozz@mbin.grits.dev to c/politics@lemmy.world

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[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world -3 points 4 months ago

See this is a flawless bad-faith dig at the Democrats.

No, this is based on decades of observing Democrats. They're great at introducing legislation that most Americans would love when they know they can't pass it, and then pretending their hands are tied or forgetting about it entirely when they can pass it.

Examples: Revisiting the public option. DACA. Codifying Roe.

With simple cynicism and dishonesty, this short comment actually does a pretty good job of making the Democrats trying to do something good which is only necessary in the first place because Hillary Clinton (for as much of a useless toad-lady as she was) didn’t win the election, and being blocked by the Republicans, and turning all of that into a reason not to feel like electing Democrats.

If you want to lie and say I'm telling people to not vote for Democrats, come right out and say it instead of throwing it behind a paragraph of cowardly equivocation.

Electing Democrats isn’t the only answer; we need a lot better than them.

But we're never allowed to demand better because that's [paragraph of veiled accusations].

[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 9 points 4 months ago

No, this is based on decades of observing Democrats

This part I actually agree with. Obama did a couple of good things but on the whole the whole Clinton / Pelosi axis is a pile of shit. Of course, that's not a good argument for letting Hitler come to power, but you would actually have a point if you weren't applying this to the guy that did:

40% reduction in CO2 emissions by 2030
15% minimum corporate tax
Actual labor people in charge of the NLRB for the first time in God knows how long leading to all these union wins
Hundreds of billions of dollars in student loan forgiveness
Big wage gains at the bottom end of the scale even when adjusted for massive historic inflation

Etc etc and so on. Biden's actually this radical forward departure from the pretty uninspiring Democratic norm. But sure, the system is still broken; if you're advocating for improving it above Biden that sounds like a great idea. I was just reacting to the absolutely false implication that these particular Democrats are only pretending to make progress. Or, have I got it wrong, were you not trying to say that?

If you want to lie and say I'm telling people to not vote for Democrats

Do you think people should vote for the Democrats? Not "allowed to vote for whoever you want" or whatever -- do you think it's a good idea for them to? What do you think they should be doing to make progress in the country, generally speaking?

But we're never allowed to demand better

Absolutely I think you should demand better. I just don't see that as incompatible with choosing the best available option while you're working for a better option than the ones currently on the table.

[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

but you would actually have a point if you weren’t applying this to the guy that did:

I wasn't applying it to Biden. I was applying it to Senate Democrats in particular and Democrats more broadly. I have other criticisms for Biden, and have made it clear multiple times that I approve of how he handled student loans.

I was just reacting to the absolutely false implication that these particular Democrats are only pretending to make progress. Or, have I got it wrong, were you not trying to say that?

I was saying that because I believe it to be true, based on my previous observations. I don't think they're gonna pick it back up when they have the numbers to pass it.

Do you think people should vote for the Democrats?

Yes. Until we have a less shitty option, that remains my position. It was my position last time you asked too.

Absolutely I think you should demand better. I just don’t see that as incompatible with choosing the best available option while you’re working for a better option than the ones currently on the table.

There is no "best" available option. Democrats are the current least bad option, and I have never advocated voting any other way. Not that you care. You've heard this from me before and continue to pretend otherwise. You know my position and yet you continue to act as though my position is contrary to what you know it to be.

I will continue to demand better, and you'll keep making veiled accusations.

[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 5 points 4 months ago

I wasn't applying it to Biden. I was applying it to Senate Democrats in particular and Democrats more broadly. I have other criticisms for Biden, and have made it clear multiple times that I approve of how he handled student loans.

Oh shit, I think maybe I did an unfairness then. I have you in my little mental list of people who talk shit on Biden relentlessly but it sounds like maybe I should not -- yeah, general unenthusiasm for Senate Democrats I can pretty fully agree with. Makes sense.

Do you think people should vote for the Democrats?

Yes. Until we have a less shitty option, that remains my position. It was my position last time you asked too.

I for-real do not remember this. I probably wouldn't have written what I did if I had -- yeah, everything you're saying here makes perfect sense.

I will continue to demand better, and you'll keep making veiled accusations.

100% fair and I apologize. Yeah, demanding better sounds great.

this post was submitted on 06 Jun 2024

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