110
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2024
110 points (100.0% liked)
Politics
10179 readers
85 users here now
In-depth political discussion from around the world; if it's a political happening, you can post it here.
Guidelines for submissions:
- Where possible, post the original source of information.
- If there is a paywall, you can use alternative sources or provide an archive.today, 12ft.io, etc. link in the body.
- Do not editorialize titles. Preserve the original title when possible; edits for clarity are fine.
- Do not post ragebait or shock stories. These will be removed.
- Do not post tabloid or blogspam stories. These will be removed.
- Social media should be a source of last resort.
These guidelines will be enforced on a know-it-when-I-see-it basis.
Subcommunities on Beehaw:
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
What an incredibly misleading article. ABC asked a leading question about what happens if he loses, then Axios misquoted him. Watch the video. There's nothing 'at peace with losing' about his words or his attitude.
This is a low-effort hit piece. Absolutely pathetic yellow journalism.
Biden is absolutely right that the press has been wrong about everything, and they still are. Polling is not an accurate measure of presidential races outside of exit polling. Debates are a media circus and do not determine elections, and it would be absolute madness to abandon an incumbent.
It's increasingly clear that the press wants a second Trump presidency. Thankfully, they are far less relevant and far less competent than they'd like to believe.
From the transcript:
Even the full quote doesn't fill me with confidence. Biden's approval rating is about 37%, which is where George H. W. Bush's was, and he didn't get re-elected. You'd have to go back to Truman to find a president that got re-elected with a similar approval percentage. At this point, I don't think the incumbent advantage will save us.
I really am absolutely terrified that my life might be riding on this election. Honestly, I'm at the point where I don't really care what it takes, the fascists must not be allowed to prevail. If that means moving on from Biden, fine. If it means guilting freaking Michelle Obama into running, fine. But if Biden is going to stay the nominee, he needs to recapture the American people's confidence somehow, and I'm not sure how he's going to do it.
also, here's where I got the approval ratings data from:
https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-BIDEN/POLL/nmopagnqapa/
https://news.gallup.com/poll/311825/presidential-job-approval-related-reelection-historically.aspx
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but we should also be aware of how this is shouldn't be the major discussion we are having. Whether Biden runs or not, it will be the same advisors, the same policies. We're allowing the media to run with the "Biden is old is somehow more of a concern" talking point.
There's many more reasons for Trump to be called on to drop out, yet everyone is focusing so hard on Biden it's overshadowing the story of Trump's Epstein activity among other things.
And while we are arguing about whether Biden should or shouldn't, Trump and his supporters are getting away with all manner of evil shit. Even if the Democrats picked another candidate I'm sure the media would then focus on how Biden dropping out somehow meant the Democrats were bad etc. not saying it shouldn't be discussed, just don't let it be the only discussion.
I don't want Trump to be replaced with a "better" Republican candidate that is more likely to win, because I don't want Republicans to win.
I want Biden to be replaced with a better Democrat candidate that is more likely to win, because I want Democrats to win.
There is also no world in which actual Republicans will demand Trump exit the race, so it's silly to think Democrats demanding that would mean anything.
Based on recent polling, potentially most of them could surpass him with even a little bit of national exposure. No clue if it's too late, or not, but better to try than just concede the election to Trump.
The DNC was pressuring other potential Democrat candidates not to run during the Primary (including the most prominent names now like Newsom, Whitmer, and Buttigieg) from the get-go, so I guarantee they're not about to do a 180. The DNC would rather lose to Trump than run a candidate they did not ordain. Remember in 2008 when they did literally everything they could to stop Obama winning against Clinton until they had no other choice? Or 2016, which was a whole mess of undemocratic bullshit (that article is wild, and it was written by Donna Brazile, the Chairperson of the DNC during the 2016 election).
No one is talking about voting for Trump, what we're saying is that we don't think Biden is going to win against Trump. That's the reason this is worth spending so much time belaboring; to me, Biden is delivering us into Trump's hands.
If you believe Biden might win, then it's 'Chance of Winning with Biden' versus 'Chance of Winning with [Replacement]', and who really knows what their chances might be?
If you don't believe Biden might win, it's 'Assured Loss with Biden' versus 'Chance of Winning with [Replacement]', so obviously that would be the route to go.
(Accidentally deletedy previous post, sorry) but you make very good points. I wasn't saying I thought he was the best candidate, it was more that's what I thought their reasoning was for still running.
I overall also think someone else should run, that wasn't my point. More that we should be focusing on how awful a candidate Trump is (and all his crimes, victims, his horrible plans for office) - and while these are all excellent points, that the Democrat candidate is almost insignificant in comparison. The Democrats establishment should be on the attack, on the defense. (Being super general). Make that the motivation to vote Democrat.
American elections, in a nutshell, come down to this. Turnout. Motivate your voters to go to the polls en masse, and you win. There just isn't that many swing voters, especially in an election like this where both candidates have been President. The reason this has been catastrophic for Biden is that appearing to be old and out of touch tends to depress enthusiasm. Combine that with the short memories of the voters and you'll have people not bothering to vote because "both options are bad". As we get further and further from Trump's presidency, people's memories start to fade, they think to themselves, "oh, he wasn't THAT bad, we had more money back then." There's also lots of people who haven't heard about Project 2025, aren't paying attention to Trump saying that he'll be a dictator on the first day, etc. They will naively think to themselves that it can't happen here, that the U.S. is somehow special. Biden's margin of victory in some of the swing states was minuscule, and that was at the height of Anything But Trump sentiment. We absolutely cannot afford to have anyone stay home. Maybe some of the post Roe effect will help spur turnout. I don't know. But presidential elections are unfortunately just a popularity contest. I really do think we need to see if there's someone charismatic that we can roll the dice on. Because "Not Trump" won't be enough, and that's pretty much all Biden ever had going for him.
I do agree with that. Trump should 100% drop out. Unfortunately, his base loves the evil shit, and he might still feel that getting elected will keep himself out of jail, so there's no way he's going to.
But, yeah, the media is absolutely screwing us here. They deserve all the condemnation we can give them. We understand that we're voting for an administration, and not just one man, but does the country as a whole realize that? I doubt it. Civics education in the U.S. is abysmal.
I also kinda cynically think that maybe if we subbed in someone with high name recognition and at least decent favorability, that the media and the Russian disinformation engine won't have enough time to hack together a hitjob on them. I don't know, I'm just spitballing and huffing copium here, I think. Need to keep my hopes up somehow.
We are voting for a King in this election.
Your civics books need to be updated.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/06/biden-trump-race-rebecca-solnit
The press is being chicken little, and writing hundreds of articles about Biden sounding hoarse and none about the lies Trump spewed or the fascism that he's promising.
He really said goodest? Or is that transcript satire? Too much sarcastic cleverness in this thread for me to follow.
I wouldn't say that I particularly "approve" of Biden, so I'm probably counted in the 63 percent. But I'm still going to vote for him.
Sure, I'd be more excited to vote for Michelle Obama or Josh Shapiro, but I'll still vote for Joe Biden if he's the nominee.
Again, political polling is notoriously meaningless outside of exit polling.
This election the media is doing the same thing they do to make our bullshit exploitative economy seem like it's healthy. They focus on measures that mean fuck all as if they were representative of something significant.
It's smoke and mirrors.
Want to make sure we don't get a fascist? Get poor people to vote. If the poor turn out to the polls, we can literally flip every single state.
Trying to talk the DNC into an absolutely bonkers gamble will not win the election. Mobilizing voters will
This is anecdotal, but the vibes I'm getting in offline conversations make me think that his low approval rating is accurate. There's a lot of "Biden is too old, and hasn't done much(which isn't entirely true), but I'll vote against Trump." That's great and all, but I live in a deep blue city(Seattle) and, honestly, I am deeply concerned about people who are more moderate, who aren't as vehemently anti-Trump. I think the disconnect here is that we differ greatly in our faith that the Dems will turn out. They responded well in 2020 to kick Trump out, but I don't know how much that fire still burns in the voting populace. Some people respond better to carrots than sticks, and while the threat of Trump is a hell of a stick, Biden is not much of a carrot. Not to say that Biden hasn't done some good things, but I feel that the media and Russia have hammered Biden enough that I think the damage is done.
That being said, however, I'm going to disengage here, and try to refrain from advocating that Biden step down going forward. Posting this thread was a mistake on my part, and I'll take full responsibility for it. Anything that dampens enthusiasm for the Democratic nominee should be avoided at all costs, and by posting this thread and suggesting that Biden should be replaced, I was simply doing Russia's job for them, and for that, I'm sorry. It's not like we have any power over the situation to begin with. The party will decide whether to stick with Biden or not, and it's our job to help make sure they defeat the fascists.