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Barcelona anti-tourism protesters fire water pistols at visitors
(edition.cnn.com)
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this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2024
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We just fundamentally disagree on this.
Your "minor annoyance" could be someone else's trigger for past serious trauma.
This is hypothetical, but calling an invasion of personal space and consent a minor annoyance is like saying "oh it's just a little kiss, come on, give me a kiss". Sure, a kiss never killed anybody, but we can agree it's inappropriate to do so without consent right?
To be clear I'm not suggesting you ever did that, or that a water gun is the same. I'm sharing a hypothetical to illuminate the core concept: the invasion of personal space is an issue.
I conclude by saying political goals should be completed WITHOUT needing to do that.
I think it is fair to let the local populations set what they consider to be fair or minor. In other comment thread (https://lemmy.world/comment/11138636) I actually bothered looking up the law and, I don't think that this even considered in criminal law. At least in Portugal there's no "assault" and the equivalent doesn't cover this ; Spain is probably the same.
In Japan it is minor to have a station officer force push you into a train. That could be someone's trigger for past serious trauma.
One of those is a sexual offense, the other is mostly speech. 5ml of water in the summer heat do not physically affect most people any more than a megaphone would, and this is where law gets muddy. Law doesn't penalize sound waves (below 120db), farts or whatever things that happen without solid-to-solid contact, but the moment there's some physical contact, no matter how light, some people in some jurisdictions go crazy.
If I touch you to grab your attention like "hey buddy, you lost this", I'm technically touching you and that could evoke some weird past trauma, but since the intent is not to cause harm I could never get hooked over that.
Ideally, however neither your thread nor the other thread where I'm talking presented any example on how to solve this without causing bigger troubles. The "people in Barcelona are mean" stereotype is one of the least damaging things they can do to themselves. Quotas & such are terrible for several reasons and ofc that everyone argues that the individual is never responsible for anything they chose to do with their money.
I don't think we will come to alignment.
I just don't think it's ok to point a gun (I know a toy) at someone and put something (water) on them. That can trigger people.
What if it's not water? What if someone thinks it's a real gun (even for a second)?
And if they make an attempt to leave from some risk/fear (real or perceived), they can't, because they are surrounded.
I don't consider ok to cause real panic to people. I also don't quite imagine that to be a common thing and I imagine that the crowd to stop if anyone starts looking not ok. That crowd is not trying to harm people at all, they're trying to get mediatic attention to spread a message that they need to take less tourists. That's what the first image in the article is saying (in Catalan). It is not saying "no tourists", it is asking for "reduction of tourism".
With this said, literally anything can be a trigger. A guy with a megaphone can very well be a trigger.
The other fella I was arguing with said that acid attacks are a common thing in other parts of the world. I had zero clue. I also imagine that it would float this from "totally not a crime, just an annoyance" to "you're going to be locked behind bars". That's what I'd wish if someone did that; it is obviously not ok to give pain and lifelong consequences to someone who's maybe lacks consideration.
Have you looked at the pictures in the article? I don't quite think that people would confuse a crowd with those to be a crowd with guns. Nothing in the context matches out. Not the looks of people. Not the place because Iberia barely has guns.
If they come from a place where everything can be seen as a gun, they can vote for that not to be the case. We don't need to stack up the considerations to appease literally every possible culture and cultural problem in the world. Zero people who in here are afraid of guns (except for the colonial fighters).
If you're afraid of clowns, don't visit the circus.
That would be the case for any other protest. Is independent of the water thing.
Mobs can be scary. They also tend to be very predictable. If your senses tell you that you have been hearing "fuck tourists" for the last 5 minutes and that there's a huge crowd coming in you direction, well, balance that our with your fear of crowds.
Protests are not mobs. You don't seem to get that
From a legal standpoint, the tourists had every right to be there.
I wouldn't rest on legality of purpose for your argument
I did not argue they didn't, I did argue that this was not a mob but a protest.
Did the cops approve the water things? They probably knew, just didn't pronounce as they probably thought nobody would care much (they're Spanish cops, not world cops, their cultural bias is what is considered harmful by Spaniards and those don't see water as a harm).
But if mob-things were to start happening (which could be the case if some tourist just started yelling something like "you should be thankful that I'm spending my money here") cops would halt that pretty fast. I personally don't see things escalating in any other way.