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this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2024
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This is horrifying. Unfortunately this is a problem because most countries do not allow abortion after a certain period of pregnancy; and there is oftentimes no exceptions to this that isn't "a Rape charge on someone they might have slept with."
This means that certain women can get "stealth-ed" by someone^1^ and not realize they're pregnant until they're too late past the abortion deadline because of their biology and inexperience with being pregnant. It's also random and uncommon enough that authorities and lawmakers do not make accommodations for this situation.
^1^ - This also includes other situations such as uncommon birth control failures.
In this case; anti-abortion laws are intended to be cruel.
Unfortunately, women who are unknowingly pregnant also can't get help. I think it's likely the woman did not know she was pregnant until some point nearing the birth in the 8th or 9th month. If you're a woman who isn't native to the country, don't know it's laws, don't know where to get help and stuck on a business trip or company provided residency visa; I could see how easily one could be quite panicked.
I don't think she did the right thing. Unfortunately it's a rare case of some grey areas which too often we tend to treat like a black area of wrong.
This was a lawyer for a huge corporation… of anyone on the planet are you implying she just lacked access to an abortion? This woman is the most socially able example you could imagine…
I am extremely pro-choice. That implies a choice of a woman over her body. Not a choice to murder a born and living person, just cause of the situation or someone’s thought processes.
It may be hard to understand for people who think a mass of cells that would die without the mother living is an independent person who deserves to live regardless of if it kills the mother…
But I got to say you are doing a disservice to what pro-choice means.
Feels weird attaching pro-choice positions to a rich woman who threw a baby out the window instead of giving it up for adoption. That’s a disservice to the argument that poor people should have a choice in the first place.
To be fair, while abortion is technically not legal in Germany there are various allowances that essentially make it legal with restrictions. It is also for the most part less controversial than for example the united states. As for the restrictions: permitted within the first 12 weeks, after an advisement appointment with a doctor and a 3 day consideration period. For women with low income the mandatory health insurance covers the procedure, the restrictions also do not apply in cases of rape or health risk to the mother.
I guess what I am saying is that the woman really had no excuse not to have an abortion or give birth and then give up the child for adoption. Fucking heinous crime, especially for something as mundane as what sounds like a mid level bureaucrat job.
There's also women that simply end up not loving their baby and society pressuring them to be happy can lead them to be miserable and to take bad decisions like in this case. People need to start feeling comfortable talking about that because it's more common than some people would like to believe and these women should feel comfortable considering adoption even if it wasn't their plan when they got pregnant.
Even trying to look for articles on the subject is pretty much impossible in English while I find more info in my first language...
I wonder if it was regret so much as a perinatal mood disorder or even postpartum psychosis. Very very sad. Until there's evidence supporting the claim I think it's best to give the benefit of the doubt.
While all that is definitely reasonable, it's a pretty big leap from "the law prevented me from getting an abortion" to "I'mma just yeet this baby out the window."
Those ideas are so far apart as to not even remotely justify one another, right?
Like, if someone gets cut off in traffic, and they get mad and mow down a dozen pedestrians, it'd be insane to be like, "Well, you have to understand, he got cut off real bad. Mowing down pedestrians is clearly wrong, but there's definitely some real grey area there."
Pregnancy and birth normally is traumatic and fucks you up. Your brain is doing wild things chemically and drowning in hormones, that sometimes actually push people into a temporary insanity. People with postpartum psychosis can become violent to themselves and others, hallucinate, have delusions, etc. It happens ~2 out of 1,000 births. And is more likely if the person had an untreated mental health problem beforehand. Getting angry that somebody cut you off is not a medical thing. Psychosis 10 minutes after labor usually is.
Fair, and if the guy I responded to was saying that this was a grey area due to PP psychosis, I would have just agreed.
But he was making the case that this was a grey area due to the abortion laws forcing her to give birth. That's a much different stance, and the one I was replying to.
But they're not really disconnected? Sometimes abortion is the treatment for PPP and PPD. I know people don't want to hear it. But it is true. Some people are not equipped to handle the pregnancy and birth, and to stay sane they need the out. Any barriers you put between them and their treatment makes these events more likely to happen.
There was an American woman-whose name I forget but doubtless others will remember, who under the pressure of her fundamentalist christian husband kept having kids, and had PPD after each, and it was worse every time. She had counseling, she had anti-psychotics, her episodes were documented, but she was in an environment where she was pressured to carry to term. With her last pregnancy her PPD gave her religious delusions that her children were going to end up in Hell so she drown them all in a bathtub to save their souls. Pregnancy can be fraught on a healthy and willing person, what kind of pressure do you think it puts on someone who isn't?