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this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2024
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The CBC and BBC got it right.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-hamas-airstrike-medo-halimy-1.7308918
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2nyy8y48qo
BBC says “alleged airstrike”. For anyone questioning how media is helping “washing” the genocide.
It goes like this:
The genocidal apartheid state run propaganda ministry has claimed there is a 1 to 1 death ratio.
Obviously lies, considering the total dead are 72% women and children.
Hamas has admitted to counting all teenagers as children, even if they are 19 and members of hamas.
Source - Why the U.N. revised the numbers of women and children killed in Gaza,
https://www.npr.org/2024/05/15/1251265727/un-gaza-death-toll-women-children
The article you linked claims 70% of the reported deaths have been identified. So even if "only" 25k out of 35k people are really dead, that's still a shit fucking ton of people. How are you arguing about this and not feel the need to take a shower? It's disgusting.
"Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) verified a total of 35,160 civilian casualties during Russia's invasion of Ukraine as of July 31, 2024. Of them, 23,640 people were reported to have been injured. "
That's a lot fewer dead civilians in a lot more time. I know the situations aren't the same but it's still two countries invading another and killing people.
The difference here is that ukraine puts its military at the edge of cities in fortified defensive lines so the ukrainian military can shield ukrainian civilians from danger, where as palestine puts it's military in bunkers hidden in the middle of cities so the palestinian civilians can shield the palestinian military from danger.
Palestine does not have an army, Hamas are just a group of people together that lost their home, land, families and friends by massacres done by Israel Occupation Forces.
This claim always gets used but never do I see the opposite claim while that's been proven. Israel uses Palestinian people as shields too, heck they even shot their own Israeli citizens death.
Also, Israel has done so many atrocities, it's genuinely impossible to link them all here;
Strapped down, blindfolded, held in diapers: Israeli whistleblowers detail abuse of Palestinians in shadowy detention center.
Israeli forces’ systemic denial of fair trial rights to Palestinian child prisoners amounts to arbitrary detention
Israel's PM Netanyahu 'proud' of preventing establishment of a Palestinian state
Far-right minister says nuking Gaza an option, PM suspends him from cabinet meetings
Israel Defense Minister Calls Palestinians ‘Human Animals’ Amid Israeli Aggression
Israeli politician: Palestinian prisoners should be allowed to be raped
Born Without Civil Rights; Israel’s Use of Draconian Military Orders to Repress Palestinians in the West Bank
Odd how every single incident you listed takes place after the 1929 Hebron massacre, when Arabs randomly killed jews for no reason.
It is odd how you pick out one particular thing and base your entire argument on that but ignore the 14 links that I have given you. You also ignore the mere fact that a European country (Nazi Germany at the time) killed 6 million Jewish people purely out of hatred and that drove the people make Israeli state by Britain giving away land that wasn’t theirs to give away.
You seem to really, really try to put the entire blame on the Arabian people.
As I’m not at home right now, I can’t link sources and comment much but I will. If I think you’re worth my time because - you seem not really the type to debate but rather just wanting to point fingers to Arabian people.
EDIT: Copy-pasted my really old comment. It is done through Voyager app on phone, so let me know if it doesn't copy well. Sometimes, I’m really curious if Israel supporters even know how the state they defend so passionately was created;
The founding father and first president of Palestine, Raj Amin Al-Huseni, was a member of the richest land owning family in palestine, a family who earned it’s wealth by being given the throne of jerusalem in a wedding present when the patriarch of the al-huseni clan, Husayn ibn Ali married the profit Muhammad’s daughter Fatima.
The profit Muhammad owned the throne of Jerusalem after migrating from the Arabian Penninsula and conquering it from the natives.
Oh, Raj is a title. It comes from the Sanskrit word ‘raja,’ which means ‘prince.’
Raj Amin Al-Huseni was an islamic royalist, and next in line to inherit the kingdom of jersuem to rule as a king.
The vast majority of land in current Israel was legally purchased from the Al-Huseni clan, who only sold it because it was a malaria infested swamp and they thought the jews would go there and die and then they could take the land back.
Source : The Rise and Fall of the Husaynis, 1840-1922 (part 1)
https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/78111
I’m not going to talk about religion because that’s not what this debate was about, like I said in another comment to you – You are trying to change the subject to religion and it is not about religion in our debate. It is about human lives and rights. Stop trying to change subjects/ topics and trying to confuse readers.
Anyway, do you even know who founded Israel? David Ben-Gurion. This particular person was one of the leader of the Jewish terrorist organization, Haganah, sanctioned the bombing of SS Patria (French ocean liner built in 1913), which killed 267 people and injured 172. Gurion become it’s first Israel’s prime minister and founder. I do recommend you to also look up about the other old Israeli Prime Ministers; Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir.
I will stop responding and writing to you after this comment because it is clear as day that you are an Israel-supporter (perhaps Zionist?) and refuse to acknowledge any of Israel’s atrocities and trying to blame everything on the Arabian people (especially Palestinians). You refuse to acknowledge that because of Nazi-Germany in WW2, Brittian gave land away that was not theirs to give away and that Israel has done so many atrocities from 1948 up until now (ongoing). Anything that that does not fit your narrative gets dismissed as ‘’biased’’ while there are so many trustable sources from different countries.
EDIT: I wanted to add on this that you called all my sources “biased”. The source about the Ten Stages of Genocide is from “Holocaust Memorial Day Trust”. Just wanted to let you know that, do what you want with that particular knowledge.
tHe cONflicT iS aBoUT fREeDom nOt ReliGion
▪ 1800: new decree adopted in Yemen, prohibiting Jews from wearing new or good clothes. Jews were forbidden to ride mules or donkeys, and were sometimes rounded up for long, naked marches through the Roob al Khali desert.
▪ 1805: 1st pogrom in Ottoman Algeria against the Jews of Algiers after a famine. French consul Dubois-Thainville saves 200 Jews by sheltering them in his consulate.
▪ 1805: exile of Jews from Algiers to Tunis and Livorno
▪ 1805, the leader of the Jewish Nation of Algiers, Naphthalie Busnach, is killed while riots ravage the neighborhoods.
▪ 1806: expulsion by fatwa of the Jews of Sali in Morocco
▪ 1806: ban on Moroccan Jews wearing Western clothing
▪ 1806: the janissaries of the day of Algiers massacre and pillage in the Jewish quarter
▪ 1807: expulsion of Jews from Tetouan
▪ 1808: 1st massacres in the Mellah ghetto, North Africa
▪ 1815, the chief rabbi of Algiers, Isaac Aboulker, is beheaded during a riot.
▪ 1815: the Jews of Algiers are forced to fight against an invasion of locusts
▪ 1815: 2nd pogrom of Algiers, Ottoman Algeria
▪ 1816: in Algeria, ban on carrying weapons for Jews and Christians
▪ 1820: Massacres of Sahalu Lobiant, Ottoman Syria
▪ 1828 : pogrom de Baghdad, Iraq ottoman
▪ 1830: 3rd pogrom of Algeria, Ottoman Algeria
▪ 1830: start of the persecution of Jews in Persia, caused by the Russian advance in the Caucasus
▪ 1830: ethnic cleansing of Jews in Tabriz, Iran
▪ 1834: 2nd pogrom of Hebron, Ottoman Palestine
▪ 1834 : Pogrom de Safed, Palestine ottomane
▪ 1838: Druze attack in Safed, Ottoman Palestine
▪ 1839: Massacre of the Mashadi Jews, Iran
▪ 1839: forced conversion of surviving Jews from Mashadi
▪ 1839: campaign of forced conversions of Iranian Jews
▪ 1840: persecution of the Jews of Damascus; ritual murder case
▪ 1840: forced conversion of the Jews of Mashadi
▪ 1841: massive murders of Jews in Morocco; the sultan is obliged to consider the Jews as his personal property, which helps to protect them
▪ 1840: Damascus, ritual murders (French Muslims and Christians kidnapped, tortured and killed Jewish children for entertainment), Ottoman Syria
▪ 1844: 1st Cairo massacre, Ottoman Egypt
▪ 1847: Dayr al-Qamar Pogrom, Liban ottoman
▪ 1847: ethnic cleansing of Jews in Jerusalem, Ottoman Palestine
▪ 1848: 1st pogrom of Damascus, Syria
▪ 1848: total disappearance of the Jews of Mashhad
▪ 1850: 1st pogrom of Aleppo, Ottoman Syria
▪ 1854: anti-Jewish pogrom in Demnate, Morocco
▪ 1857: beheading in Tunis of the Jewish coachman Batou Sfez, accused of blasphemy, while he was drunk
▪ 1860: 2nd pogrom of Damascus, Ottoman Syria
▪ 1862: 1st pogrom of Beirut, Ottoman Lebanon
▪ 1866 : pogrom at Kuzguncuk, Turquie Ottomane
▪ 1867: Barfurush massacre, Ottoman Türkiye
▪ 1868: Eyub Pogrom, Ottoman Türkiye
▪ 1869: Massacre of Tunis, Ottoman Tunisia
▪ 1869: Massacre of Sfax, Ottoman Tunisia
▪ 1864–1880: Marrakech massacre, Morocco
▪ 1870: 2nd Alexandria massacres, Ottoman Egypt
▪ 1870: 1st pogrom in Istanbul, Ottoman Türkiye
▪ 1871: 1st Damanhur massacres, Ottoman Egypt
▪ 1872: Massacres in Edirne, Ottoman Türkiye
▪ 1872: 1st pogrom of Izmir, Ottoman Türkiye
▪ 1873: 2nd massacre of Damanhur, Ottoman Egypt
▪ 1874: 2nd pogrom of Izmir, Ottoman Türkiye
▪ 1874: 2nd pogrom of Istanbul, Ottoman Türkiye
▪ 1874: 2nd pogrom of Beirut, Ottoman Lebanon
▪ 1875: 2 pogroms in Aleppo, Ottoman Syria
▪ 1875: Massacre on the island of Djerba, Ottoman Tunisia
▪ 1877 : 3e massacre de Damanhur, Egypte ottomane
▪ 1877: Pogrom of Mansura, Ottoman Egypt
▪ 1882: Massacre of Homs, Ottoman Syria
▪ 1882: 3rd massacre of Alexandria, Ottoman Egypt
▪ 1889: after the funeral of a rabbi, deemed too discreet, the Jewish cemetery of Baghdad was confiscated
▪ 1889: looting of the Jewish quarter of Baghdad
▪ 1890: 2nd Cairo massacre, Ottoman Egypt
▪ 1890, 3e pogrom de Damas, Syrie ottomane
▪ 1891: 4th massacre of Damanahur, Ottoman Egypt
▪ 1897: murders in Tripoli, Ottoman Libya
▪ 1903&1907: Taza & Settat, pogroms, Morocco
▪ 1890: Massacres of Tunis, Ottoman Tunisia
▪ 1901–1902: 3rd Cairo massacre, Ottoman Egypt
▪ 1901–1907: 4th Alexandria massacres, Ottoman Egypt
▪ 1903: 1st Port Said massacres, Ottoman Egypt
▪ 1903–1940: Pogroms of Taza and Settat, Morocco
▪ 1904: massacre of Jews in Yemen
▪ 1907: Casablanca, pogrom, Morocco
▪ 1908: 2nd Port Said massacre, Ottoman Egypt
▪ 1909: comment from the British vice-consul of Mosul: “The attitude of Muslims towards Christians and Jews is that of a master towards his slaves.”
▪ 1910: blood libel of Shiraz
▪ 1911: Shiraz pogrom
▪ 1912: 4th Fez, Pogrom, Morocco
▪ 1914: expulsion of Jews from Palestine old enough to bear arms by the Ottomans
▪ 1917: Jewish Inquisition of Baghdadi, Ottoman Empire
▪ 1918–1948: adoption of a law prohibiting the raising of a Jewish orphan, Yemen
▪ 1920: Irbid massacres: British mandate in Palestine
▪ 1920–1930: Arab riots, British Mandate Palestine
▪ 1921: 1st Jaffa riots, British Mandate Palestine
▪ 1922: Massacres of Djerba, Tunisia
▪ 1922: law of forced conversion of orphans in Yemen, concerning Jews including as adults
▪ 1927: 60 Jews killed by Arabs in the Mellah of Casablanca Morocco
▪ 1928: Massacres of Ikhwan, in Egypt and under British mandate in Palestine.
▪ 1928: Jewish orphans sold into slavery and forced to convert to Islam by the Muslim Brotherhood, Yemen
▪ 1929: anti-Jewish riots, British mandate: in August 1929, the Jews demanded the construction of the Western Wall; pogroms in Jerusalem, Hebron, Safed. To stop the violence, the British reject this request
▪ 1929: 3rd Hebron Pogrom under British Mandate Palestine.
▪ 1929 3e pogrom de Safed, mandate britannique Palestine.
▪ 1933: 2nd Jaffa riots, British mandate in Palestine.
▪ 1934: Anti-Jewish pogrom in Constantine Algeria. 200 Jewish stores were raided, the total material damage was estimated at more than 150 million francs. It also sent a quarter of Constantine’s Jewish population into poverty.
▪ 1934: Pogroms in Thrace, Türkiye
▪ 1934: 1st massacres in Farhud, Iraq
▪ 1936: 3rd Jaffa riots, British Mandate Palestine
▪ 1936: 2e massacre of Farhud, Irak
▪ 1938: boycott of Jews in Egypt
▪ 1939: discovery of 3 bombs in synagogues in Cairo
▪ 1941 : 3e massacre de Farhud, Iraq
▪ 1941: persecution of Jews in Libya
▪ 1941: massacre of Jews in Baghdad, with the support of the authorities: approx. 170 dead
▪ 1942: collaboration of the mufti with the Nazis. Plays a role in the final solution
▪ 1942: Struma disaster, Türkiye
▪ 1942: Nile Delta pogroms, Egypt
▪ 1938–1945: Arab collaboration with the Nazis
▪ 1942: discriminatory tax law of Varlik Vergisi in Turkey against Jews and Christians
▪ 1942: looting of Jewish property in Benghazi and deportation to the desert
▪ 1944: attack on the Jewish quarter of Damascus
▪ 1945: anti-Jewish and anti-Christian riots in Egypt; churches and synagogues destroyed
▪ 1945: 4th Cairo massacre, Egypt
▪ 1945: Pogrom of Tripoli, Libya
▪ 1947: segregation measures against Jews in Egypt
▪ 1947: pogrom in Libya; approx. 130 dead
▪ 1947 : Pogroms d’Aden au Yemen
▪ 1947: 3rd pogrom d’Alep, Syrie
▪ 1948: “emptying” of the Jewish quarter of Damascus, Syria
▪ 1948: 1st Arab-Israeli war (1 Jew killed in 100)
Holy man, you seriously don’t get it do you? You are so far up the Zionism ideology that you seriously do not understand reality. You brought up other massacres and problems that has nothing to do with Palestine and Israel conflict.
You have nothing to debate within the Palestine-Israel conflict, you can't make counter-arguments to any valid, solid and trustable sources that I do link. So you get anything that's about Jewish people but nothing of that has to do with the Civilians rights of both Israeli's and Palestinian people.
You are trying to make this “Jews vs Islam” or “Jews vs Arabs” but neglect the entire reason as to why Palestine was forced given away by Britain to Jewish people. Remember WW2 when Nazi-Germany did the Holocaust and killed 6 million Jewish people. A European country. Zionist’s always try to confuse readers. You tried too and failed.
Thank you for proving my point, you literally* got nothing to stand on within this debate. I will block you since, I now understand you are nothing but a Zionist that's rather go for the ''They did this, so we do this'' instead of ''We are all human beings therefore we should make peace and try to live life normally''. You pretend as if Palestinian people displaced 750 000 people and killed many along the way but it's israel who did that and is still doing in today's era. You also seem to be trying to victimize Israeli's and trying to make Palestinian people the bad ones. Palestinians are not the one who stole land, illegal settlements, rape, hate crimes, murdering and having a Apartheid state. That's all Israel's doing. If you ever get out of the Zionism ideology and genuinely want to educate yourself about the Palestine-Israel history. I highly recommend you to not listen to people but do research, read books, news-articles.
You are seriously no ones worth of time, energy and effort - Why? I will refer to my previous comments to that. Good luck in life.
EDIT: Corrected the word with ''*''
EDIT 2:
You have started to become immensely childish. I also never said ''freedom'' but ''human lives and rights''. Our debate is about human lives, rights and Palestine/Israel. Religion was never within the debate until you tried to change the entire subject/ topic (probably because you got nothing to stand on). Do look up all the links, I have linked. I genuinely wonder if you did that (but I assume, you did not).
You are ignoring hundreds of years of systematic oppression of jews under muslim rule and a clear pattern of religious violence against jews during the islamic empire to pretend the conflict began the day the jews declared independence?
They also put their military among aid convoys and stuff, right? Super convenient.
Literally yes.
Source - US aid group admits Gaza convoy was taken over by unvetted people before IDF struck them
https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-aid-group-admits-gaza-convoy-taken-over-by-unvetted-people-before-idf-fired-at-them/
Nice unbiased source you've got there... Care for an alternative version?
"Shortly after departing Kerem Shalom, initial reports indicate that four community members with experience in previous missions and engagement in community security with Move One came forward in a car and requested to take the place of the leading vehicle, citing concern that the route was unsafe and at risk of being looted," it said.
"The four community members were neither vetted nor co-ordinated in advance, and Israeli authorities allege that the lead car was carrying numerous weapons," it added. "However, the four individuals were not perceived by the convoy as a hostile threat."
"The IDF had said on Thursday that a convoy of aid trucks from the American Near East Refugee Aid (Anera) organization entered the southern Rafah area with Israeli coordination. It said that during the drive, it identified a group of gunmen taking over a vehicle at the front of the convoy and beginning to lead it. The IDF described the act as a hijacking attempt."
I mean.. dunno what to believe here... /s
I hope that, someday, you realize how wrong you are. I hope you don't just shuffle away from your prior skewed views and act like you weren't an abhorrent monster. I hope you own up to who you were and carry that shame with you to better yourself as a human being.
Cheers.
Not sure how international institutions can make it clearer.
Of course they’re committing genocide.
And yet there has never been a successful conviction of genocide against Israel in any legal forum.
After 20+ years of genocide claims, the life expectancy in gaza is greater then in Egypt where there is no genocide.
Typical fascist propaganda, the enemy is both too strong and too weak. Israel i strong enough to do genocide but they are so weak that their genocidal efforts amount to less harm against palestine then if Israel handed control over to Egypt, who is not doing genocide.
This link here, shows all the stages of genocide; The ten stages of genocide. A quick glance and we can determin already that's Israel is on stage 8. There's currently a whole trial ongoing about Israeli's genocide on Palestinian people
Any evidence of this heavy statement or is this ''source: trust me, a stranger on the internet''? Because this claim is so absurd, I cannot even take it seriously.
I don't even understand what you mean with this sentence. What do you mean?
From what I get from all your comments, you support Israel, their Apartheid, murdering behavior. If I'm wrong, correct me.
This should be a wakeup call to you that your belief system is inherently flawed and based on propaganda.
The truth, to you, is so absurd that you can't take it seriously?
In 2022, the average life expectancy in the West Bank and Gaza was 75.4 years for females and 73.2 years for males.
The life expectancy for Egypt in 2022 was 72.38 years for males, and 67.2 for females.
https://healthpolicy-watch.news/wha-76-occupied-palestinian-territories/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/970652/life-expectancy-at-birth-in-egypt-by-gender/
It’s so absurd because you give zero sources in your first comment. Any stranger from the internet can claim anything and pretend its the truth. So yes, I’m immensely skeptical when it is without sources.
Like I said in another comment, I might comment make later on. Not at home right now.
You also didn’t give any answer to my other question and ignored the 10 stages of genocide link.
I would also like to say, my views are based on history and not propoganda. I’ve read what Israel has been doing since 1948 up until now (ongoing). But you seem to ignore all the facts about Israel’s past and all the trustable links so it can fit your narrative.
EDIT: corrected word, added bit more context.
If your views are based on history according to biased sources then your views will be biased.
The two dominate ideologies in palestine are islamism which is more popular in Gaza and is exemplified by the Islamic resistance movement (hamas) and palestinian islamic jihad; offshoots of the Egyptian Muslim brootherood, a group founded after the collapse of the Ottoman empire with the goal of reforming the islamic caliphate with Jerusalem as the capital. The other ideology is pan arab nationalist socialism, which is more popular in the west bank with groups such as PA and fatah, which were heavily influenced by syrian bathisim, which was created in 1940 literally inspired by Italian fascism and nazi german national socialism.
Both ideologies in palestine are totalitarian dictatorships.
Totalitarian dictatorships are liars. The foundation of fascist propaganda is the "nazi big lie", always accuse your enemy of doing what you do.
Ergo, what palestine accuses Israel of doing, palestine already does.
Example 1 : palestine fires unguided rockets at random into israeli civilian cities and when the rocket launchers are targeted with precision guided munitions for destruction = palestine claims israel is Indiscriminately bombing palestine
Example 2 : palestine makes it so Jews are not legally allowed to live in palestine, the punishment for selling things to a jew is death = palestine claims israel does aparthide
Example 3 : palestine attacks israel and murders random civilians at a music festival = palestine claims israel does genocidal attacks against palestine
Edit : stuff
It’s quite clear that everything that does not fit your narrative is ‘’biased’’. I have many links that are from different sources, different countries and non-Arab countries. You do not give any response to these trustable sources, probably because you have no valid argument to give.
EDIT: I wanted to add on this that you called all my sources “biased”. The source about the Ten Stages of Genocide is from “Holocaust Memorial Day Trust”. Just wanted to let you know that, do what you want with that particular knowledge.
You suddenly make this about religion, out of literally nowhere. It is not about religion in this debate, it is about human lives and rights. Stop changing subjects/ topics and trying to confuse readers.
You didn’t read the link then.