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In a 65-foot-deep tunnel in Rafah, hostages found executed by captors
(www.ynetnews.com)
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this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
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Do we have any source aside from the IDF?
Because already where they were supposedly found is based on what the IDF says. And we know that the IDF has been lying repeatedly throughout this war. We know that IDF soldiers have killed Israeli hostages before. We know about the Hannibal doctrin that dictates the IDF killing their own soldiers to prevent them from being captured alive. And the current political situation in Israel has become extremely critical of the IDFs failures to secure the hostages. So the IDF has an even greater incentive to downplay any possible responsibility.
Until we have the results of a comprehensive investigation by a non IDF party, there is a lot more evidence we need to know before forming a judgement.
We know Hamas and regular Gazans lie even more than the IDF.
Greater incentive? Hamas are terrorists. They follow zero international laws. Hamas has no incentive whatsoever to be honest. We know about their constantz irrefutable war crimes, every time they go out without uniforms (always), hiding among civilians (the more the better!), as if that's not a bigger war crime than anything the IDF has been accused of, using entire cities as human shields.
You asked, what more evidence would be needed. I laid it out. In regards to "hiding among civillians" i would like to ask you, whether you will apply that same condemnation to IDF, whose Headquarters are in the center of TelAviv https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HaKirya
Are they hiding the IDF headquarters among civilians? No. Did they sneak in at night and build it under colleges and apartment buildings? No. Everyone knows right where it is. The people going in and out are uniformed soldiers, under color of a legitamate country.
This is a stunningly idiotic comparison. You weren't serious, forgot the /s, right?
If you were Hamas, would you situate yourself in a building out in the middle of nowhere (where is that in Gaza?) With a sign on it saying Hamas lives here, please don't bomb.?
So you acknowledge the fact that hamas uses human shields to protect its military assets?
I wouldn't be Hamas.
No one would be occupied, if they could help it. That's rather the point
Has Gaza made any effort to reject international terrorism and work towards a future with justice and basic human rights for its own people? No.
Every time they choose terrorism. They would rather be fed by the charity of gullible westerners than by their own hands, those are occupied with killing Jews. Don't invest in food infrastructure, spend all the Qatari money on rockets! Solid leadership from Hamas, popularly elected before Hamas (popularly) cancelled all future elections. Suggest otherwise and they'll (popularly) kill you! That's your freedom fighters.
That's why it was blockaded. It was occupied because of October 7. It is still occupied because of Hamas and it's ideological supporters and allies. Maybe we could have a few Gazan's step forward and point out the tunnels, point out the Hamas members, if they aren't happy with where Hamas has led Gaza and don't want martial law.
You could say the same about the IRA. And people did. It was tedious and irrelevant then, too Look, you're entitled to your opinion. Let's agree to disagree
Fair enough. History will judge.
E: Actually no it's not fair enough. Did the IRA not have a specter of legitimacy? I'm judging them both by how they treated their own people, and innocent people. I would likely give Palestine a pass for killing their oppressors if I thought that's what they were doing. Again, go over there and talk about women's rights for democratic values, and see if you don't get stoned to death for being an infidel. The IRA were at least decent people, morally defensible.
You can't help yourself, huh? Fine, have a ban
What?
Not sure about that. The Hamas health system seems to have been pretty accurate about casualty numbers so far and in the past (including when belatedly confirmed by the IDF). Whereas the IDF has been shown to lie quite a lot
Also: International Law? What does the ICJ have to say about that issue?
They're simply no way to reasonably say that the IDF lies more than Hamas, or that Hamas is more credible than the IDF. The IDF is the professional military apparatus for whom every Israeli citizens serves, building roads, stopping suicide bombers from entering the country, and all sorts of useful things. It has government oversight by democratically elected civilians.
Hamas literally lies about everything and encourages a culture where hurling false accusations at the infidels is a fanatical duty, the more sensational the better. Qatari media will run the stories. Guardian will repeat them without scrutiny, and internet know nothings will do the rest. World's respectable media: silent, as they won't run stories based on TikTok memes.
Yeah, the Palestinian medical system keeps a pretty good account of dead bodies. That's about the only thing it's good for. They are accomplices to constant lies about how those bodies piled up and who they are. All of them are kids. None of them are fighters. All of them were sniped in the head or blown up by Israel bombs. None of them were stoned to death by fellow Gazans for implying that Gaza should hold an election. Not one!
The ICJ hasn't ordered Israel to do anything Israel was not already doing. Read the orders yourself. At some point South Africa is going to have to prove up their reductive and self-cited claims in a courtroom and since their entire complaint is essentially based on Al Jazeera and Guardian articles that lack names, dates, or on the record sourcing, that's going to be a heavy lift! Israel is going to bring receipts. And when they find they did fuck up, they will have a reciept for the court marshals and indictments. When is the last time a Gazan fighter faced a court marshal, never? How many Gazans in jail (in Gaza) for war crimes, none? Because they give you money in exchange for doing war crimes, in Gaza. Israel at least has some people in prison. The ICJ cited Israel's continuing efforts to prosecute war criminals in its initial orders denying South Africa's request for affirmative relief. Gaza has followed how many provisos of the ICJs orders? Zero.
Keep drinking that koolaid, brother
Stop drinking whatever it is you're drinking dude...