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We did it, guys!
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
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"If liberals are so fucking smart why do they lose so goddamn always?"
I don't think it's fair to blame voters when it's the politician's job during s campaign to convince people they're worth voting for.
Adopting unpopular centrist policies and aligning more and more with centrist Biden's policies as the campaign went on is just going to fill voters with apathy.
The Democrats, once again, didn't give us a candidate to vote for, only one to vote against. And I think the American people are sick of that carrot-stick routine, the Dems need to actually adopt popular policies.
And the establishment Dems are going to fight that tooth and nail.
Why did you need to be convinced to vote against Trump?
We didn't. Most people did. Candidates running for office are a popularity contest. Biden has low approval ratings, Harris said she's Biden and wouldn't change most polices.
Trump is much much worse, and I voted for Harris in California despite knowing it didn't change how North Carolina or Iowa could have gone.
At some point "I'm not Trump" gets tired and going "I'm just like the guy in office who was so unpopular he dropped out, but I will give Republicans what they want on border policy and appoint them to my cabinet" reads more like Diet Trump than "I will give you policies that sway people away from fascism."
Even a single life less harmed is worth it for that vote. People clearly arent that ethically committed if they needed to be convinced to vote against this
I voted for Harris. Roughly 60% of American voters who are eligible don't vote.
Harris needed to convince those voters that she was either worth voting for, or Trump was worth voting against.
She failed to convince them of either, so they stayed home, along with 14 million Dem voters she failed to convince to vote blue like they did in 2020.
How was anyone not already convinced to vote against Trump again? Its not like he changed in four years
You have every right to be angry, but your anger is pointed at the wrong people. Just like the elite divide the masses with bullshit culture wars, the Democratic party elite want you to blame your fellow voters rather than their unpopular platform and abysmal campaign.
I've seen this attitude repeated ad nauseum these last few weeks, from people discussing Harris with conflicted undecided voters. And your attitude and aggression is exactly what all of them received, and yet you all wonder why people may have stayed home?
People were vocal about their complaints regarding the Democrat's platform, and they were ignored. If democracy is so important, why the fuck couldn't the Democratic party adopt more progressive policies?!
Like, apparently it's completely reasonable to expect people to do what you say with no promise of even addressing their concerns, nevermind actually addressing, but it's completely unreasonable to just choose not to participate in the system?
You're not entitled to someone's vote, regardless of the circumstances. Stop blaming your fellow countrymen and women for not feeling represented, and start screaming at the party who fucking refused to represent them.
Stop blaming your fellow Americans for the Democrats running a platform so unpopular, 14 million Democrats that voted in 2020 chose to stay home.
Stop blaming your fellow Americans for the DNC hiding Biden's mental acuity issues for well over a year, humiliating himself (and our country) on stage at his debate before hastily cramming a candidate the party didn't have a say in, and running her on policies that their constituents were vocally against.
As a trans woman, you're damn right I'm fucking terrified, and I'm fucking angry.
But my anger is at the Democratic party, who decided that spending decades appeasing the Republicans and giving the American people nothing that they've been promised, who knew the consequences of this election and decided a 2016 rerun was the only viable option, who paraded Republican after Republican across the DNC stage while snubbing Palestinian Democrats from speaking, and then sending Bill Clinton to lecture the electorate about why Israel has the right to genocide Palestine.
The Democratic party had fascism at the gates, and passed all responsibility onto their voting base instead of checks notes listened to their fucking constituents.
So don't get angry at your disillusioned and apathetic neighbor, they're a symptom of the system being unrepresentative of the people for so many years.
Direct your anger at the DNC, demand they start listening to their base, demand that they start trying to garner non-voters with popular policies instead of moving further right to appeal to moderate Republicans.
Or better yet, send them letters regularly, like I plan to do, reminding them that all of the awfulness the American people are living through is a direct result of their entitlement and hubris. Maybe throw in their that they could probably get elected if they actually listened to the American people and ran on policy that reflected what they want.
But that's probably too radical, let's just keep blaming the electorate for wanting to participate in a system that represent them, not one that runs on "Please, we promise, last time we're delaying fascism/the other guy, for realz for realz this time, we'll totally enact all the laws, just give us more money you don't have and give us four more years." But, I'm clearly not as educated and smart as the people running the DNC, I mean, I haven't lost 4 out of the last 7 elections trying to run the same playbook everytime,
They just have to run a candidate people want to vote for, not a candidate people have to vote for. But they won't, because the DNC seems to think they know what people need better than they do. And their voting results this year clearly show that...
A reasonable person votes against the enemy after a certian point, even if that means electing a fucking banana. Why did you need to convinced to vote against Trump? Why wasnt that a given? One of you answer us that please
A reasonable person understands running the same strategy over and over and expecting different results is literally the definition of insanity.
But it's perfectly ok for the DNC to trot out nothing but the status quo for their voters? After over a decade, they can't promise anything beyond "not fascism" to their voters and the rest of the population?
And I already answered you: Harris needed to convince voters to vot for her, or against Trump. That's a politicians job during a campaign, and she failed miserably.
So now explain to me why the average voter has to keep swallowing a shit sandwich, but the political party that keeps failing using the same failed strategy, why don't they have to change? Why is it so unreasonable for them to adopt more popular, progressive policies that voters actually want?
I'll wait, you can go ahead and explain that.
People weren’t happy so the DNC booted Biden and put in Harris who is a strong candidate given the situation.
Still the fickle left wasn’t happy and over ten million voters who voted Biden before wouldn’t turn out for her.
I wouldn’t blame the democrats for going harder right now to both eat away at the republican’s support and target the people who actually turn out to vote.
Trump got less votes in 2024 than 2020.
How much did voter purges and other voter-suppression measures contribute to the lower turnout?
Do you think it accounted for the 14 million Dem voters who voted in 2020 but stayed home in 2024?
I doubt it.
your response is tone-deaf and meaningless.
this election was an armed robbery and 20 million witnesses just watched it happen because they wanted to "teach the victim a lesson." how fucked up is that?
I blame the DNC, I blame them for dragging us to this point.
I blame the RNC, I blame them for pushing us to this point.
But most of all, I blame Americans that idly stood by and let this happen. You had the opportunity to swing everything blue. had the opportunity to pressure them for four more years. had the opportunity to set the stage for some real change in 2028.
you fucks sold us up the fucking river for your pride and arrogance.
I'm fucking mad as hell, and you want to tell me where I need to direct my anger? Fuck your arrogant idealistic dream. You want me to direct my anger? How about I direct my fucking anger at you? The one who's trying to fucking manipulate me into attacking their opposition. I fucking know who I'm mad at.
fuck you, and fuck those 20 million Americans that willfully withheld their votes. I hope every single one of you chokes on your arrogance and pride when you're fucking starving in the camps those monsters are going to put us in.
Its called a metaphor
Answer me this. How fucked up is it to tell women and lgbt people that our lives are worth less than people halfway across the world who hate us just as much as Republicans. Because thats what you abstainers did.
If you tried for two years and got nowhere, maybe the blame circles back to yall not accepting a clear "no".
It wasnt the DNC either. Biden chose to try to run, against the advice of basically everyone around him. On the other hand, you might be the only person who isnt a Republican to give a shit about wanting a primary. Definitely the first Ive encountered.
See what I said above about ignoring a clear no, and telling the rest of us marginalized Americans we matter less than Palestine.
The reason the DNC doesn't push progressive candidates, above all else, is that progressives cannot be counted on to vote. Why would they appeal to you when they know the moderate conservatives will at least show up.
We demanded people vote against an obvious evil which would be worse for Palestine than Harris. That was never up for debate. The most basic of realpolitik should've told you all to vote for her regardless if saving Palestinian lives was your goal. As evidended by...
Congratulations, you get a cookie. Now why couldnt the other 14,999,999 work that one out?
Wanting the DNC to field a more progressive candidate isnt wrong. Expecting them to do so in response to not voting is an idealistic dream, and blaming them for siding with the faction that can be trusted to show up is the arrogance.
Noone owes us protection, but we owe Palestine? That makes sense/ And, tell me again, which candidate was better for them?
So Im not entitled to anyones vote, as an American trans woman. But Palestine is? You are at best inconsistent, and at worst a hypocrite. And the fact stopping fascism wasnt a good enough sell to earn those votes says more about you than our entitlement
I cant have kids, but if Im ever in that position Ill tell them exactly what I told you: I did not believe that position politically viable and am perfectly willing to gamble in lives because you have to be in politics. Thats alot of what politics is. Additionally, they sure didnt give af about preventing my genocide at home. In fact, alot of them probably support it if anything, so why tf should I care about theirs halfway across the world?
Im gonna come back to this alot. But yes, sometimes it IS inconvenient. You clearly either do not understand or reject the idea of realpolitik.
It clearly was ONLY important to you. Maybe that's an unpleasant reality, but its the one we get to deal with. Much like the fact that most Americans are either facist, stupid, or both. Thats a horrible situation that makes politics real unpleasant, but pretending it isnt is not exactly a winning strategy. Most of us either dont care about Gaza enough to change our position, or dont think doing so is actually a viable strategy rn.
Look at exit polls, most people cite the economy and immigration as concerns, Palestine isnt even on the chart. Obviously we cant poll voters who didnt vote, but Trump actually lost votes from 2020, just not as badly. Unless we assume that all 15 million of those dropped voters stayed home over Gaza- which isnt likely given said exit polls- there are more Americans voting FOR Fascism because they blame Dems for the economic effects of the pandemic, and cant stand sharing the country with Latin Americans; than there likely are Americans who stayed home over Gaza. If you have a poll which suggests orherwise, Id love to see it
This used to be how both parties worked just as a point of fact. Primaries are a fairly new thing in the grand scheme. Its not your fault for not being represented, but it is for not taking the lesser evil. You chose not to vote, and that is your right. But that enables the worse candidate to win sometimes, you cant pretend like that isnt the case. Your vote and the DNC do not exist in a vacuum.
That wasnt me trying to dictate anyway, I just had already spoken on the subject and didnt want to repeat myself. Its not elitist to not say the same thing twice.
Again, exit polls. Palestine wasnt a big issue to anyone except you, and the Dems are a big tent party with liberals, never-Trumpers, proper Socialists, ect to try to appeal to. Thats what being in a coalition is. Sometimes you have to make big compromises. Or you can choose not to vote and risk sinking us all, which- to reiterate- is your right, but seems like a tactically foolish decision when Trump is objectively going to be even worse. Why, if you care so much about this genocide and are so unwilling to compromise, would you rather risk selling them out completely instead of mitigating the damage. Whether you like it or not, whether it was wise or not, the DNC was not going to compromise. An explicitly anti-Israel position was not on the table. So why would you risk electing the candidate who is even more pro-Israel if you care so much about Gaza?
I voted for Harris because, among those concerns for LGBT and womens rights, I also understood Trump would be even worse for Gaza. Would an explicitly anti-Israel candidate be nice, sure. But that wasnt on the table. That is me standing with those people affedtee in the most effective way available to me.
Theyre not entitled to my vote either, and you cant be surprised a trans woman doesnt feel much sympathy for people whos religion is explicitly misogynistic and transphobic. Setting that aside, again, I did vote in the best way available to me for them.
Considering you're so concerned about Gaza, I would think preventing the situation from getting even worse would be enough of a sell. If you think democracy is a good- and Im inferring you do- theb saving democracy should've earned your vote completely irrespective of who was running or what their policy was provided they will in fact save democracy. A rotten ham sandwhich shouldve earned your vote if you were being logically consistent. But you arent.
One can do idiotic things without being an idiot. That being said, you want me to stand with Arab-Americans and Palestine by extension, here you go. Why should they trust voters like those who stayed home to advocate for them when- if your demands for justice are not conceded to- you would then elect the zionists over the status quo? Gaza is not a boolean vairable where things are so bad it doesnt matter what you do if you dont get justice, things can still get even worse. And you- who cares so much about advocating for them- would rather that happen if immediate justice is not onbthe table. You arent an idiot, but thats an idiotic position. (1/2, second part later. Im at work)