591
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2024
591 points (92.6% liked)
politics
19104 readers
1966 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Marginally addressed. Like I get it. He's better than Trump, but so is 50% of the average person I see outside. There is no effectively addressed, when we know the tested, studied, and actually implemented solutions.
For example: The ACA. Yes an improvement from what came before but a quarter baked bandaid on the bullet wound of a health care system. We know universal health care system is the answer. It's a fact. The Democratic party never once made that a core part of their platform. Even if you know you won't get everything when working in a democracy you still have to argue from a far left position so when you compromise it's a stronger shift. The middle ground between universal health care coverage and 100% free market is the public option. Where Americans can decide between government coverage or private. But the ACA essentially forced everyone above the poverty line into private insurance held up by government subsidies.
Another example: instead of being 100% anti genicide the Democrat leadership landed on reducing the sizes of bombs given to Isreal?! What's the middle ground between the 100% pro genicide party and the 75% genicide party? Ya ones better but if we land on a compromise of 87% genicide, did we really achieve anything?
Income inequality: Republicans 100% pro oligarchy Democratic party leadership is 75% pro oligarchy. The party of facts and science knows our economy with collapse every 20 to 30 years to keep the jinga Tower from crumbling to the foundation so what do they do? Bail out the companies that destroyed the economy in the first place and reset the lopsided tower. If we bail out a company why shouldn't it also be nationalized?!
I can keep going on. Every issue the Democratic party's solutions are little more than the queen saying, "let them eat cake."
I live in a solid blue state and surround myself with far left people because we've realized, expecting the federal government to improve your life is a fools errand. We're building our own bubble of compassion, science, and facts. Yes we vote blue but know the only change we can truly make starts by getting involved in our community and surrounding ourselves with those that will fight from a strong position and not a already right leaning position. If we're going to die it'll be with a Molotov cocktails in one hand and surround by those that actually care about each other. Opposed to at the feet of the oligarchy begging for crumbs.
They handled the post-covid period better than virtually any other major nation in the world. With no inflation, with a low unemployment rate, without a recession. But people voted for a guy who aims to impose tariffs. You can't make this shit up.
Yuppy, they got 1 out of 10000 issues right. But did they continue using that as a springboard to get other things right? Nope.
No inflation? Yes, but did they investigate companies that price gouged during the pandemic? Very little to none.
Low unemployment? But are those high quality jobs that would lift people out of poverty? Nope.
Recession? Not for those at the top. Us normal people have been in a 30 year recession.
Everyone knows that if the Democratic party was just as ravenous as Republicans but for left policies our country would be better off.
I don't know what people expect from US presidents. Do they think they are watching Harry Potter or something? Do they expect him to wave his wand and solve all their problems? Go read about the other political branches and their roles. It's ridiculous.
Uhhhhhh no. But people are mad that the democrats are starting on the 50 yard line and meeting the Republicans on their 25 yard line.
No one thinks their political wishes will be granted automatically if they win an election. The problem is One party is willing to do anything and everything in their power to achieve what their base wants, while the other won't even give their base a seat at the table. It's even more of a problem when the democrats demand loyalty and then cry when the people most likely to vote for them just stay home one election day. Look at all the popular policies that the democrats won't even put on their platform. It's crazy to think people are naive and dumb when they are going to lose regardless.
This is shaping up to be "why didn't they do everything, everywhere, all at once".
Your argument would actually make sense if the president had to do things by themselves and didn't have access to millions of people and Trillions of dollars. Once again they never even put left ideals in their platform let alone tried to get any of them done. Grow up dude. Like I said no one is neive to think they'll get everything they want when it comes to politics. But when your party is already standing on the middle line and meeting the other party on 3/4th of the way, it's a problem.
It's more that Congress passes laws, and legislation takes time to write. You have to figure out what each individual congressman will pass and write it out in excruciating detail.
Ya and what have the democrats accomplished over the past 30 to 50 years? It doesn't matter which branch they are in. At every level and field the Democratic party has grossly under delivered. Even their most left and progressive policies have been water downed to the point that they are unrecognizable as left policies. What truly left policy has been signed into law at the federal level? I honestly can't think of one.
Now you're shifting gears, which we can address. Ok the Dems need all 3 of presidency, house of reps, and senate to pass pretty much anything. That's how it works. And they've had all 3 for, drumroll please, 4 of the last 24 years. Or 6 of the last 32 years. Or 6 of the last 44 fucking years. And you wonder why progress is slow? It's because Dems basically never have power. If they don't have all 3 they are forced to reach across the aisle. If you want things to progress you need to give them overwhelming and consistent victories.
Okay but when Republicans even have one branch of congress they bring the whole government to a stand still until they get concessions.
Just name the top 5 left/progressive wins over the past 50 years against the top 5 right/consecutive.
Republicans have had version levels of control as well and have dictated what happens to the country the whole time.
You/we have no evidence that the democrats would bring about left policies of given 50 years of unchecked control.
Once again, what even has been their agenda? They have never supported universal health care. They've never supported reducing or ending wars. Arm sales? Nothing. Redistribution of wealth? Nothing. Crisis climate legislation? Nothing. Nationalization of too big to fail corporations? Nothing. Police and justice system reform? Nothing. Money in politics? Nothing. Corruption in the Supreme Court? Nothing. Insider trading by government officials? Nothing. Immigration reform? Nothing.
Can you honestly say the democrats leadership has been even really trying to move the country towards science, facts, and compassion? They don't even try to lie to their base anymore. I'll say it until the day I die. If democrats were as ravenous about left policies as the Republicans or nation would be a better place. Yes they are not purely to blame but they are ment to represent their base voters and haven't put forth a platform that amounts to little more than crumbs. It's a strategy failure the dems are guilty of. Being less authoritarian and oligarchical than your opponent is nice but what's the downside to being 100% against those things? That's what the people want but if we can't get even the platform to represent those ideas, what's the chance of it happening?
Republicans can do that because they don't care if the government shuts down. Imo their entire goal is to burn everything down, they're happy to do it.
But the Democrats do care. They don't want to shut down the government.
The difference is in what each party wants to do.
The GOP wants to stop progress. That's all they want to do, stop progress. By and large they are not trying to create and write and pass new complex legislation. They want to hit the big giant pause button on society. And they can do that with any one of the 3 houses. They can literally accomplish pretty much all their aims with 1 house, whereas the Dems need all 3 to do anything.
Or they want to simply repeal old legislation. They're not replacing it with newly created and labored over legislation, they're just straight out going to repeal all the legislation.
The Democrats want to pass things. When they get power they have to write that new, complex, excruciating detailed legislation. That's after they go out every single congressman to figure out how far they can go on bills. That's why the ACA was watered down, they needed Lieberman. And of course, all 3 houses to pass it.
In short: Progress and creation take real time, effort, hard work, and all three houses to pass it. Stagnation or regression requires fuck all.
Want progress? Then you need to give Dems consistent and overwhelming victories. Not 6 years every 44 years.
The democrats don't care enough to have a platform and policies that'll gain them voters and they spend elections trying to pull Republican votes. Just have an actual left agenda and they won't have to worry about what Republicans are trying to do. The American people want universal health care. The American people want higher wages and wealth redistribution. The American people want justice system reform. The American people want sooooooooo many left policies but the democrats won't even put those things as issues they are trying to solve.
Take up left-facing causes will guarantee landslide victory. Run as a left populist. They know what the American people want but just ignore it
You're shifting gears again. But we can address that too. I see this enough to have it saved:
Ok let's go through this chronologically.
Bill Clinton: After successive Dem losses Bill figured out "it's the economy stupid", aka center policy, not leftist policy. Plus when you run against an incumbent (Bush senior) you generally run from the center. So that's what he did. And he won.
Gore: After the population hopefully warmed up with Bill Clinton, he stuck his head out left with climate change. And bam he lost the election. Thanks 3rd party protest voters! Aka: The left never shows up.
Obama: So guess what Obama learned? Don’t stick your head out. He ran on broad “hope” and “yes we can” and having energy, hoping the ambiguity would be enough considering Bush’s disastrous wars. And he won.
More on Obama: So he enacted the ACA. That's great, right? The thanks Obama got for that was to lose the House of Representatives for year 3 and 4. And lose the House of reps again for years 5 and 6. And then lose both the House of reps and the Senate for years 7 and 8. He enacted left policy and: The left never shows up.
Hillary Clinton: So what did Hillary learn from the last 6 years of Obama? She learned that the left never shows up. So she only stuck her head out with a big position to left on the map room to climate change. She basically declared war on climate change. You know that big existential issue that all the leftists care about, right? The big important issue that the left says they want so badly, right? And guess what happened? Bam she lost. Thanks protest non-voters! Aka: The left never shows up.
Biden: Just like Obama learned from Gore, Biden learned from Hillary that you don't stick your head out left on anything. Not one thing. And he was running against an incumbent, so once again when you do that you run center. And he won.
More on Biden: But he did left things anyway. He did green energy, EVs, drug price control, PACT act, chips act, etc. And what were the results? Lost the House of Representatives for years 3 and 4. Polls showed him losing the election to Trump. He enacted left policy and: The left didn't show up for midterms, and was not going to show up for the next election.
Harris: So guess what Harris did? She tried Obama's strategy of "get ahead" and energy. And abortion rights and democracy. She relied on the left to show up for their human fucking rights and friggin democracy. They couldn't even do that. Aka the left never shows up.
And people are amazed that they don't run a big left platform? Every time they rely on the left they lose. Every Single Time. And the next guy learns to go to the center to win. Because the center voters actually show up.
With this history, you’d be an absolute fool to cater to and rely on the left. Because. They. Never. Show. Up.
So how do you get them to move left? By giving them victories first. Consistent and overwhelming victories. Show them it's safe to take policy chances. Because when they lose, like they've lost for 38 of the last 44 years, they go to the center to find voters.