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Is this a faithful recreation of the version of Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement with 2 additional bottom levels?
I think insults and name calling should be higher, for shit-for-brains reasons
that pyramid makes it look like debate is build on a foundation of violence
Maslow's Hierarchy of arguing. You can't refute the central point unless you have a stable source of violence.
So here’s how a healthy debate progresses. First, you hammer the opponents face with your fists until your knuckles hurt. Switch to insults, and verbal violence. Focus on attacking the opponent’s appearance, gender ethnicity and so on.
Eventually, you can actually start approaching the main topic, but do that gradually. Begin with addressing the tone first. Next, you can just state the opposite of the main argument, but skip all logical reasoning and evidence.
And so on….
Accurate. Before talking, monke solved disagreement with personal touch.
that pyramid makes it look like debate is build on a foundation of violence
A point to raise with Paul Graham (or whoever first depicted it as a "pyramid" graphic), for his appearing like debate is built on a foundation of name-calling.
All law and civility is based on violence.
It's the basis for human societies.
I don't think the additional levels quite fit. From the original blog post:
The most obvious advantage of classifying the forms of disagreement is that it will help people to evaluate what they read. In particular, it will help them to see through intellectually dishonest arguments. An eloquent speaker or writer can give the impression of vanquishing an opponent merely by using forceful words. In fact that is probably the defining quality of a demagogue. By giving names to the different forms of disagreement, we give critical readers a pin for popping such balloons.
The bottom two aren't really themselves arguments. They aren't things you read and then make a decision whether to take seriously, but rather means of controlling what you read to begin with. So while there is reason to criticize these practices, their inclusion muddles the scope of the message. The scope of the message is important, because the ideal of free expression has become more controversial since it was written in 2008, and it's not itself a defense of free expression, more of a proposed heuristic for getting more out of a debate with the assumption that you are approaching that debate with the intention of improving your rational understanding of something or leading others to a rational understanding.
IMO arguments about censorship and violence need to be made separately, because the value of that approach (as opposed to words being valued mainly as persuasive weapons) is in question and has to be addressed.
Could be not even on the chart, or could be suppression.
Invert the rows and you get "time and effort required"
Wheres the one for refuting a point that was not actually made and then pretending that was the central point?
The chart does not cover fallacies like strawman arguments. Perhaps that's around a corner of the "pyramid", on a side not shown.
Your suggestion that men are made out of pyramids is laughable and logically flawed.
Check and mate.
I like it when people are just talking shit on social media and someone steams in accusing people of “ad hominems” like it’s a formal debate.
When two humans can't come to an agreement about fundamental human rights, the only option left is violence.
The problem with human rights is that they function as the justification for State violence. "We're arresting you to protect property rights". "We're invading you to free your people from oppression". I can't think of a modern conflict that doesn't have a "human rights" casus belli.
Even your comment follows the form: I can suspend human rights to protect human rights.
this post was submitted on 03 Oct 2025
32 points (94.4% liked)
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