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I don't know about y'all, but if I grew up in a country that never has the news criticizing its leaders, I'd be very skepical and deduce that there is censorshop going on and the offical news could be exaggerated or entirely falsified. Do people in authoritarian countries actually just eat the propaganda? To what extent do they believe the propaganda?

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[-] omxxi@feddit.org 12 points 1 month ago

This can be controversial, but my opinion is that religious education normally is the opposite of critical thinking. If you teach the kids to accept beliefs just based on faith, you're killing critical thinking.

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[-] the_q@lemm.ee 6 points 1 month ago

No one, including you, is immune to propaganda.

[-] devx00@infosec.pub 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I try and explain this to people all the time but many don’t want to believe it.

There are 2 types of people in this world; those who are influenced by propaganda, and those who don’t know they are influenced by propaganda.

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[-] throwawayacc0430@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 month ago

I mean, honestly, I'm questioning if anything my parents told me is even real, or is it just exaggerated to make themselves seem like great parents in order to diminish my view on their toxicity.

It's hard to distinguish between what's a genuine doubt from a conspiracy theory.

That's the thing with people.

Some have zero skepticism, and believe everything they see.

Others are overly skeptical and distrusts everything, including science.

It's hard to find the right balance.

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[-] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 3 points 1 month ago

Decision fatigue is a real thing. Ask anyone who sat through three tests in one day; even if you have studied the material, it's hard to focus after a while. It's easy to fill our day with minutia that distracts us from the impostant issues.

[-] JeSuisUnHombre@lemm.ee 3 points 1 month ago

Critical thinking is a skill that requires teaching and practice. If children are not given that preparation they won't have that skill in adulthood. That's why authoritarian governments care so much about controlling and/or limiting access to proper education.

[-] brax@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago

I find way too many people talking about "common sense" as if that was even a thing. It frustrates me to no end.

[-] Itdidnttrickledown@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

"common sense"

A set of assumptions(usually false) acquired before age 12.

[-] jsomae@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 month ago

I'm wondering how you are measuring "common sense" that arrives at "usually false." Are you ignoring obviously common sense things, like "the sky is up" -- since that's just common sense?

[-] brax@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 month ago

If you are in North America and you draw a line straight up, will you reach the sky in Australia?

[-] jsomae@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Well I didn't say the sky isn't also down. (Begrudging upvote.)

[-] brax@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago

You know, you are technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.

I respect your technical smartass response to my technical smartass check attempt.

[-] rekabis@programming.dev 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Something like host over half of all Americans cannot read above a 5th grade level. Almost a third are functionally illiterate.

It’s not that they don’t have critical thinking skills. It’s that the entire lower-90% have been so badly nerfed that it is increasingly difficult for anyone in that cohort to get to a point where they can educate themselves without copious assistance.

And that’s exactly how Republicans prefer the population - uneducated, illiterate, ignorant and gullible. The better with which to scam them for their votes.

[-] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago

People focus their energies on getting through the day for the most part of their lives. It is very hard for people to muster the time and energy to paying attention to politics, let alone ideologically political propaganda.

The vast majority flat ignore it entirely and remain in an apolitical state. This is a primary function of propaganda: insulating people from political action or thought that might alter the status quo.

[-] pleasegoaway@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago

Many of the United States have removed teaching critical thinking from their curriculum.

[-] FriendOfDeSoto@startrek.website 2 points 1 month ago

I think this USSR quote is a good answer:

We know that they are lying, they know that they are lying, they even know that we know they are lying, we also know that they know we know they are lying too, they of course know that we certainly know they know we know they are lying too as well, but they are still lying. In our country, the lie has become not just moral category, but the pillar industry of this country.

(Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn)

In any authoritarian system where indoctrination starts young you'll probably have a fifth of the population that's high on the coolaid or never questioned anything due to ideology or intelligence (or both). The rest know they're lying, etc. And keep their mouths shut because they don't want to go to Siberia or El Salvador.

[-] starlinguk@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Also applies to modern day Russia. Everyone knows the elections are fake, for example, but they keep their heads down.

[-] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid

it was a tool of mass suicide not a drug to get high on lol

[-] Hawke@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

That’s not the point of the phrase — the statement refers to the true believers drinking poison unquestioningly, without entertaining the thought that it will kill them.

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[-] Ephera@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 month ago

Yeah, and just because you know they're lying, doesn't mean you know what the truth is, much less so how to prove it to someone else.

[-] Yermaw@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago

I was idly thinking about this the other day, how absolutely lonely it must be in say North Korea, where if you're caught by the regime to be thinking the wrong thing you'll get killed. I'd know its bullshit, but I'd be terrified of speaking out or asking questions, incase the person I'm speaking to is an agent of the state, or will suspect me of being an agent and inform the authorities incase I'm testing them.

It must be awful not knowing who's a secret police, who's a gullible rube for buying the propaganda and who's just hiding behind forced conformity.

I don't think many of them will believe the propaganda, but I bet the ones who do will be the happiest. Or least miserable I guess.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 1 points 1 month ago

Do people in authoritarian countries actually just eat the propaganda? To what extent do they believe the propaganda?

Where I come from? Not much, but part of that is because the lies are so obvious and in conflict with people's lived experience that you can't even delude yourself into accepting them.

[-] heyWhatsay@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 month ago

Critical thinking has been an increasingly rare skill, partially because people are focusing on conspiracy theories instead.

[-] hungryphrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 month ago

Critical thinking has to be taught in order for a person have it. And when you either restrict/limit education (for example, making it so that one needs a lot of money for proper schooling, thus barring lower classes from getting the education they need) or alter the education to become indoctrination. (These methods are most efficient combined!) It's why authoritarian people and parties want to control and/or destroy education systems so bad.

Being a history nerd, I've been convinced that the vast majority of people can be tricked into believing nearly anything. No one is immune to propaganda, it's just a matter of circumistances and the education you receive.

If you had grew up in a society where everyone told you that, say, pigs are a type of lizard, and your school taught you that pigs are lizards, all biologists were bribed or forced into saying pigs are lizards, and all the books you read and all the movies or shows you watched said pigs are lizards, chances are that you would believe pigs are lizards.

I'd also like to note that the above scenario would work especially well if you had never actually spent time with pigs. For example, it's a lot easier to convince someone that gay people are evil if they don't personally know any gay people.

I also think that often people know that, for example, elections are fraudulent, but they are too scared to say anything and thus act like they aren't.

[-] barneypiccolo@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Back in the 70s, I had one if those subversive high school English teachers - longish hair, no tie, wore bell bottoms, arranged the desks in his classroom in a circle, etc. His name was Mr. Clark.

Mr. Clark had an unusual teaching style that I really responded to. Much more Socratic, making us defend our ideas, but be willing to change our minds if someone had a better one. I liked his teaching so much, i took his classes 3 years in a row, including 2 Shakespeare classes.

It wasn't until years after college, that i realized he wasnt really teaching us Shakespeare, he was teaching us to think, using Shakespeare as a vehicle. We were practicing Critical Thinking Skills every day for three years, without even realizing it.

It became so ingrained in me to question assertions and allegations without sources, and view everything objectively before drawing a conclusion, that I found it very easy to resist propaganda. When Rush Limbaugh came on the radio in the late 80s, I was shocked that anyone was buying into his obvious bullshit, but my well-honed Critical Thinking Skills saw through his "logic" instantly.

At some point, I tried to look up Mr Clark, so I could thank him for being the most influential teacher in my life, but he had passed away about 5 years before. He literally taught me how to think.

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[-] rayyy@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Seriously, if you are AWARE of propaganda, you are also aware that you have been influenced by it. Propaganda is pervasive in civilizations. It is simply manipulation. TV ads and guys trying to pick up chicks are everyday uses of propaganda.

[-] Dozzi92@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

I go on Reddit and come here and I nod along and I'm like yes, yes, and then I leave and sometimes it feels like coming up from being underwater. We are quite literally surrounded in propaganda. It has never been easier to disseminate opinions, especially when the majority of our communications (mine for sure) come via text on a screen. It is in every single facet of our lives.

And so I talk to my brother and he always tries to get me to think more, he's a smart guy. He says things like "Who benefits the most" from whatever, opinion I've talked to him about, and so frequently it goes back to corporations. I don't want to get overtly political, but personally the best way I try to think about things is linearly: this thing we are talking about, trace it to its logical end point and origin. And then feel helpless again.

[-] SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 month ago

I've recently gotten into BP debating and it teaches you a palette of skills useful in seeing through propaganda. (Seeing nuance in bad things, playing devil's advocate, narrowing down disputes to very specific points of contention, explaining things with chains of cause and effect, putting facts into perspective, making sure to explicitly define words, ...) I wish more people tried it – it would raise the quality of discourse in society so much.

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this post was submitted on 03 May 2025
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