I read that completely differently from how it was meant.
They're pushing out fossil fuel furnaces.
Been a little while since I looked up the utility rates, but last I remember gas is about 1/7 the cost of electricity in Saskatchewan. Makes it hard to justify heat pumps for heating in most places. Hope the technology continues to improve and it’ll be a more sustainable option when we have a more sustainable grid.
Gas furnaces achieve about 96-98% efficiency. Heat pumps achieve 300-400%. So you have to factor that in.
There's still a cost difference but the hope is for governments to start supporting serious nuclear energy to drive down electric costs. It'll take time but natural gas will become less economical as decades go on especially with investments.
How does something achieve 300-400% efficiency?
Refrigeration cycle can get crazy efficiencies like that because it is transferring energy from one side of the system (indoor unit) to the other (outdoor unit). The amount of energy that is transfered is greater than the amount of energy required to push the refrigerant through the system.
Newly built nuclear would do many things, but it wouldn't drive prices down.
Wind and solar would do that though.
Yeah, depends where you live. Saskatchewan is the worst place, Quebec is the best.
I'm in Manitoba and am kind of in the same situation. Even though our electricity is really cheap, it's still more economically efficient to use natural gas. Coupled with just buying a new furnace and air conditioner, I don't see myself getting one anytime soon. I'd still be happier if we subsidized electric heating/heat pumps (or stopped subsidizing fossil fuels so much) but recognize I'm in a place where I can afford that and many others simply can't.
I have to pay about $50 USD per month just for the luxury of having heating in the northern US., even during the summer when I don’t need it. R The gas company can fucking blow me, I’m getting natural gas out of my house as quickly as I can afford it.
Yep, doesn't make economical sense here yet. Better to put money towards air sealing and (the right kind of) insulation.
Last I read, which was years ago, was they still struggle under -20C. Which is not abnormal for many places in Canada. How do these perform in wicked cold times?
Some heat pumps work by running pipes deep underground.
unless I am very much mistaken this is only true for air source heat pumps. If you're in a cold environment I would expect you'd want a ground source heat pump instead, although the installation cost for that will be significantly higher than air source.
Mine works fine.
they still struggle under -20C. Which is not abnormal for many places in Canada
Yes, but that's why heat pumps in this country are typically paired with auxiliary electric heat. The heat pumps still contributes some amount, even at -30 or below, but the electric "tops up" the pre-warmed air that the heat pump makes.
And that is only really needed for a couple of months out of the year, even in places like Winnipeg or Edmonton.
20-30 years ago, the heat pump technology wasn't as capable, and couldn't do the job as well, but they have improves quite a lot since then.
Yes, but that's why heat pumps in this country are typically paired with auxiliary electric heat.
Yes, and although it's not very efficient to have auxiliary electrical heat, that's a small percent of the overall year.
If you live in a home that hits -20C for 20 days per year, that's really cold! But you'll probably need the heater on for about 180 days per year at that point. Putting up with less efficiency for 20-30 days per year is still a net gain if the other 150 days of heating makes up for it.
This is not the whole story because not every heating day is equally cold. I have a high end cold climate heat pump in Colorado (which works great btw). I use about 1/3 of my total annual heating energy in January, despite heating for >6 months of the year. I'll use 10% of my annual energy budget for a long weekend if its -10F, and that's all heat pump (I don't even have backup strip heat). It would be 20% if i was using electric resistnace for those 4 days. Electric resistance is really not great, so folks really should get the best heat pumps they can that cover the coldest normal days. It's fine to install strips as a true backup but you're going to have some very high bills and high carbon if you're using it 20-30 days/year. If its hydro/nuclear power you'll still come ahead on carbon but that's not the case everywhere.
I mean, a resistive electric heater is still ("just") 100% efficient.
Yeah but if some direct combustion of a fossil fuel is cheaper than electricity, then the actual dollars per unit heat will be cheaper with a fossil fuel source.
True.
but the electric “tops up” the pre-warmed air that the heat pump makes.
Is the heater at the hot end? The reason they crap out is that they can no longer move and vapourise their coolant, so I'd expect it to be somewhere else, probably the cold end.
The ones I've seen, the aux heat is in the duct airflow after the hear exchanger.
I have a heat pump and furnace combo. The heat pump works extremely well down to around -10C. Below that it takes a very long time to move the needle by half a degree. The furnace doesn’t kick in until the thermostat sees the house temperature trending in the opposite direction it’s attempting to achieve.
Unfortunately, its method of determining the time gradient of temperature is rather moronic and doesn’t take the temperature schedule into account. This means every morning when the schedule calls for higher daytime temperatures (even by just half a degree) the thermostat freaks out thinking that the house is cooling rapidly and kicks on the furnace to bring up the temperature.
This causes the system to needlessly run the furnace every single morning. It annoys the hell out of me but I don’t know what to do about it. Aftermarket thermostats aren’t very common around here (Canada).
Have you checked home automation forums? Some users are fanatics about tweaking stuff. Maybe there is a method or override option. Or see if you can get manufacturer on the phone.
My issue is home insurance and HVAC regulation in Canada. I don’t know what is legal and what isn’t as far as HVAC system modifications go, given that I’m not a licensed HVAC technician. Doing my own home automation mods badly could damage or destroy either my heat pump or furnace, resulting in thousands of dollars in repair bills. Or it could jeopardize my home insurance in case of a fire and result in even greater financial losses, even if my modifications were only tangentially related to the cause of the fire.
Understood, the manufacturer may have a firmware update to solve the issue you mentioned
That’s a good point. I should look into that. It does have the ability to connect to the thermostat with an app but I never tried that.
There are a variety of aftermarket thermostats available at Canadian Tire, many of which are quite good. The Home Automation enthusiasts seem to be big fans of ecobee, IIRC, and I have seen ecobee thermostats at CT.
I’ll check them out. I once applied for a job at ecobee without knowing what they did!
Central heat pumps have built in electric heat in cases the heat pump alone isnt sufficient.
Even if the heat pump isnt enough all the time, its still better than heating with oil, electricity, gas, etc. exclusively.
It isnt an all or nothing situation.
Last conversation I had on Reddit years ago a guy in Ottawa had data that showed that he was drawing heat during near -40C.
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