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Nonat1s just did a tier list/compass meme video on this topic: https://youtu.be/EqyJHxXXoyQ
He ranks Oracle, Alchemist, and Summoner as being hard to play, and Fighter, Barbarian, and Champion as fairly easy to play.
just
99K views 10 months ago
Hmm. 🤔
Nah but seriously, thanks for the link. That was a really interesting video. I went ahead and watched a bunch more of that guy's stuff too.
Lol I think what I should've said is that I just watched it recently. Although I don't think any classes have been released since he published that particular video. I also discovered his channel fairly recently abd have been watching a lot of his videos lately.
The Rules Lawyer is also pretty good, though his delivery is a bit drier.
I've been watching everything he's put out since the OGL crisis. Do you know if he's got a video on the subject of complexity?
I do not know, sorry. I just wanted to point him out in general as he is my other go-to on YouTube.
Though there is a third that might be useful for your players to understand certain parts of the system. Frizz is the name.
https://youtube.com/@nochessyfrizz
He does short, generally very focused videos. I know you are converting your whole group, so I figure a bit of extra help could be useful.
Wow, I've been watching a heap of his stuff over the last few hours. It really is excellent!
I like this summary of each class, it includes a 'difficulty' rating for each:
I got so many good responses to my previous post in this community asking for resources that I didn't get to all of them until after I posted this question.
But one of the resources someone linked was that same summary, and I agree, it is excellent.
Here's my ranking, in rough order. Starting with simplest and going to most complex.
I'd say that Alchemist, Summoner and Magus are the only truly complex classes, though.
- Fighter
- Rogue
- Ranger
- Champion
- Barbarian
- Gunslinger
- Monk
- Inventor
- Sorcerer
- Cleric
- Bard
- Investigator
- Swashbuckler
- Thaumaturge
- Psychic
- Oracle
- Druid
- Witch
- Wizard
- Alchemist
- Magus
- Summoner
Why not Barb as the lowest if I may ask? Rage and go hit stuff, seems like the simplest class to play to me.
Some of the rage powers make it a bit more complex, like a feat that lets you use a rage-tagged ability for free when you activate rage, etc.
Why do you consider summoner as complex class? Because in-play it is not really anymore complex than sorcerer or investigator.
It has the most complex action economy, but once you know how Act Together works it is really not too bad. Just a lot of options on the table at any given turn.
Thats true. Almost everytime GM just wait until I announce my end turn because how varied the action cost are.
Now that I think of it, summoner can effectively get up to 6 actions per round with feats and/or summon spells.
For anyone considering ranger, their complexity goes up if you go with animal companion or snare.
Snares in particular means trying to make them work in combat, and waiting lots of levels before they can work in combat. Or it means trying to anticipate combat and setting them up beforehand. And more options open up for snares with the advanced players guide because of ranger focus spells and because of the snare crafter archetype.
Snares are also a problem for players. If a GM suddenly likes and thinks seriously about snares, then enemies will use them. And enemies can potentially protect their base or whatever with snares ahead of time. It's potentially brutal.
Hmm, snares... Thank you for that advice!
I feel you.
On my table, I banned Alchemist, Summoner, Oracle, Psychic, Thaumaturge, Inventor and Kineticist. They are all more complex than the Wizard, which means "more complex than pratically a beginner box character".
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this post was submitted on 18 Jul 2023
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