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[-] Ech@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago

I feel like "mansplaining" has lost all meaning. It used to be about men going out of their way to correct someone that didn't need correcting, particularly if they were wrong themselves, and most often with women. Now people use it on men just...saying things to anyone.

I get that people are touchy on the subject, and I respect anyone's right to not want or need help. I think how Mr. Solomon handled it was correct - ask if they want your input and respect their answer. It'd just be nice if people didn't use cultural memes to dismiss others out of hand.

[-] _finger_@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

We used to call these people patronizing but it got gendered for some reason

[-] asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's funny because "patron" in "patronize" comes from "pater" which means father.

[-] heili@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

And "condescending" is also available to describe this behavior.

[-] PopularUsername@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Yeah in my books, "Mansplaining" has never had proper meaning. It was just a way of blaming men for a particular behaviour, which is generally neutral to begin with.

[-] kbotc@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Nah, it came from a very real workspace behavior where men would explain things to women when the woman would be the expert.

It’s very well studied: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/it-s-man-s-and-woman-s-world/201603/the-psychology-mansplaining

[-] PopularUsername@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

Is an interesting topic of discussion, unfortunately, they always seem to attach these things to a specific gender or race and it makes the whole thing sound childish. It's like the concept of micro-aggressions, I like the idea of investigating the subtleties of human behaviour which can have covert but large effects, but they immediately attach it to race and racism.

[-] _finger_@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago

The people who came up with it just didn’t have a lot of real world experience dealing with people. Most likely college kids writing from their own, narrow minded viewpoint (with a dash of narcissism)

[-] Zyrxil@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Because it's a specific subset of patronizing, where it wouldn't have happened if the target were not a woman.

[-] Lightor@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

What about the other way around, what's that called? Like I've had women "mansplain" cooking to me because I am a guy.

[-] Zyrxil@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Womansplaining I guess? It's not a popular phrase or even one I've ever heard anyone else use, but it somewhat fits as she explained it because she felt like you don't understand cooking as a guy. But it's missing the other context where mansplaining only became a popular term because lots of women could identify with their own personal experiences of being condescendingly explained to just because they're a woman.

[-] Ataraxia@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Thought it was assuming someone you're talking to needs to be eli5 something like properly configuring a firewall. As a woman I always have to step on eggshells not to embarass guys doing that because every time I mention anything that indicates I have experience in IT and tech support they seem put off and stop talking to me lol... especially if then I try to share what I've done to fix an issue that has been plaguing say the office and they don't understand what I'm talking about. I think though intersecting into someone's conversation is very rude at least where I'm from. In public I don't expect to interact with a stranger unless they're about to warn me about a bobcat behind me lol. I don't interject in other people's conversations even though I may be knowgeable about it because who am I to them? They're having a friendly conversation and I walk up and go "xcuse me ma'am, actually, it was Jennifer Lopez that was being referenced in the taco kisses episode of South Park, not Shakira". Again, just awkward?

[-] afraid_of_zombies2@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

I have never liked the term. I am also in a technical role and feel like if I say anything to a women at work I will be yelled at.

Like okay I had to go to speech therapy for years the very fact that I can talk at all is a miracle of medical science. Any other time in human history I would be effectively mute. So now I am working with someone, I have to not only figure out the answer to their question I have to spend all this effort to get my mouth to move to say the answer and if I explain it even slightly wrong I am an awful person who deserves to have their life ruined.

I don't know what you don't know. Sometimes I am not going to simplify my answer not enough sometimes I am going to simplify it too much. I am going to make a mistake and for that I am sorry.

Frankly I do avoid it because I don't want to be accused of something. If I don't interact I can't interact incorrectly.

[-] anonymoose@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago

Wow, they sound like some insecure guys lol.

I get what you're saying about interjecting in stranger's conversations, but that actually happens all the time (initiated by men and women, to men and women) here in Canada. It's actually one of my favorite things about Canada! I've got into some spirited discussions with random strangers about all sorts of things, and bonding with strangers with immediate familiarity is something I've grown to really enjoy.

Unless I'm in an introverted mood, in which case I just mumble and run off lol

[-] Tenthrow@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I'm pretty sure I had a woman mansplain something to me once in the meat aisle at Sam's when I was making a joke about a rib roast to my wife.

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago

I feel like “mansplaining” has lost all meaning

Yeah, they misused the term.

Mr. Solomon handled it was correct - ask if they want your input and respect their answer.

You forgot step #3! Not whine about it online.

He offered, they declined, we didn't need to hear about it. The only reason we heard about it is because he felt slighted, or is trying to make some anti-feminist point. I'm sad that he felt bad, but not everyone is going to want the free stuff you're offering. That doesn't make them bad people, or feminism a bad movement.

[-] ZaroniPepperoni@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

So if a female biologist who wrote a PHD thesis on the origins of RNA overheard some men talking about the origins of life and when the women wants to chime in because she is a subject matter expert, the men tell her they "don't need a black woman's explanation". And after being told this she is in the wrong for venting online? Please. Your just as sexist as the people you claim to be opposed to.

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

You cannot in good faith compare people who have suffered because if their skin color to those who have not, when talking about situations where skin color comes up.

Are both situations racist by pure definition? Sure. Just like punching a man and punching a child are both punching. One is much more wrong.

[-] GONADS125@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Fuck all that noise...

One racially motivated act (say hitting someone because of their skin color) is not any more or less racist depending on the race of the victim. If you believe that, it is by definition a racist value you're holding.

There's a difference when it comes to contextual, social and historical factors. Like the word cracker is insensitive but doesn't carry the hateful connotations and discrimination that the N-word possesses.

But anyone trying to say it's more or less appropriate to hate on any single group is just demonstrating their own implicit and explicit racial biases.

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

What if that person is white of Jewish origin? Or Irish? Heck, I know a Lebanese guy who's whiter than me and has red hair...

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Mocking a culture that has been abused because of their culture (Jews) is worse than mocking a culture that has not been abused for their culture (Karens). But mocking white looking people for being white isn't the same as their culture. It matters what you mock.

Don't punch down. It's not more complicated than that. And if you're not sure if you're punching down, don't punch.

[-] Pokethat@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

As a brown person. It doesn't matter what color you are. Someone's race shouldn't matter at all when comparing how fucked up something is unless it's directly culturally relevant.

A white guy vs black woman RNA paper writing PhD being told gtfo is equally offensive. Race only matter like if you told the white guy vs black woman something like a joke about picking cotton or the white guy a joke about him fucking his sister.

Telling someone "you don't matter / you are the enemy" for over a decade and to millions of people is how an actual white nationalist movement became a thing. You can only tell people how horrible and evil they are until they start to believe in it.

[-] Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It’s not anti-feminist to laugh at the irony of saying no to the MIB writer clarifying the origins of the story. It’s just a goofy story lol.

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

And if he wrote it to be a goofy story, then I'm with you. I don't know his intent.

[-] Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I was just saying that bc it seemed too cynical when you said we didn’t need to hear about it at all. I guess I don’t 100% know his intent either but there hasn’t been any reason to doubt it so far.

[-] regeya@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

It's a funny anecdote from the creator of Men in Black about being shut down for mansplaining the origins of Men in Black. Yikes.

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

Yup, and it's fine, until the guy above me starts to comment on their choice of words.

It can either be a funny note where we all laugh, or it can be an analysis of people's word choice and reaction. When it's the latter, his whining will be met by my whining, until all the whining stops :-P

[-] Vino@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

"No Mansplaining" sounds more like an excuse to avoid a conversation you feel insecure about

[-] SomeoneElse@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

If you’re talking about the post title, I was being sarcastic.

[-] dan1101@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

I'm so petty I wouldn't be able to resist saying "Well I wrote it, but you know better than me."

[-] Mr_Dr_Oink@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Ed was sat next to two redditors it seems.

[-] Waitwuhtt@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Rude.

[+] Wurstkiste@lemmy.world -11 points 1 year ago

Yeah, pretty much the same as men back in the days telling a woman to shut up because she's just a woman. Now it's white males who are told to shut up because they're just white males. Same shit, different target.

It sometimes feels like feminism and emancipation is not about freeing women, but to take vengeance for centuries of oppression on the white men who live today, regardless of whether they fit the pattern or not. It hurts to see that society does not seem to have learned from its mistakes. We're making them again. This time only in the opposite direction.

[-] IHawkMike@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Oh ffs stop playing the victim.

[-] afraid_of_zombies2@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago

Just don't explain anything and you don't have to worry. At work only interact with your own gender and never be alone with the opposite. Better to be safe than sorry.

[-] AdamEatsAss@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Don't ever, for any reason, do anything for anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what. No matter where. Or who, or who you are with, or where you are going or... or where you've been... ever. For any reason, whatsoever.

[-] Tb0n3@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Wow. That sucks.

[+] Wurstkiste@lemmy.world -12 points 1 year ago

Seems like we white males are going to have a tough time, regardless of whether we're actually quite nice, fun and okay-ish, average dudes or the Next Big Predator Trump type asshole. The fact alone that we're white and male is obviously enough to be judged and disrespected.

[-] Tired8281@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Maybe, but I'm certain we're privileged enough that we can take it and will be just fine.

[+] Wurstkiste@lemmy.world -6 points 1 year ago

Until we're not anymore.

I thought feminism was about equality.

[-] Tired8281@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Until we’re not anymore.

Can't wait. I can acknowledge that I've lived my life with privilege, while still speaking against the system that gave it to me. I didn't ask for it.

[-] Wurstkiste@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago

Question is, privileged compared to whom? Of course I do not want to be privileged compared to women, persons of color, whatever other part of society that I currently might be privileged compared to because I am a white man. But that should not mean that I have to hand my privileges over so they become privileged compared to me. We should all have the same level. That's what I thought feminism was about. If it is not about ironing out these privileges and leveling the differences, but instead to hand them over and turn the tables, I have the fucking right to feel like a victim.

[-] Tired8281@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Wow, way to read into what I said! My point was that you enjoyed that privilege, for your whole life, whether you liked it or not, and that puts you in a better position to handle any shit you might take for it now. Better off than someone might be who didn't have the advantage of enjoying that privilege. That's not saying you have to surrender that privilege or that somebody else is gonna come and take it, it just acknowledges that it's a thing and you benefited from it. All that stuff about taking away your privilege came from you, and tbh it's a little bit strange of a focus when I was simply acknowledging that it existed and that I benefited from mine. I'd give it up in a second if I could, honestly, because it's not something I earned.

this post was submitted on 26 Jun 2023

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