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German welfare state 'can no longer be financed' — Merz (www.dw.com)
submitted 5 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world
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The German chancellor has called for a welfare reform, putting him on course for a possible clash with the SPD.

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[-] gusgalarnyk@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

Merz is predictable and a traitor to the German people. He will usher in the fascist power grab through conservative policies - the AFD will grow in popularity as conservatives protect the 1%.

Die Linke's tax plan would have paid for the yearly debt of the government and then some; their secret - tax the wealthy.

We can afford all of our costs, we can improve society, we can provide a thriving economy for all Germans if we simply tax the ultra wealthy out of existence. No one should have a billion euro net worth, nor 100 million nor 50 million. No one need own 3 houses while others go without even a flat.

We have enough wealth in this country, it's just in the hands of the hoarders. Don't look towards conservatives or the right for change, look towards those that address the root problem!

[-] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 5 months ago

IMO the borders need to be closed first before taxing the rich works well enough. Allow me to explain:

If you tax the rich today, they drop the german citizenship and become carribean citizens tomorrow, and then you can't tax them anymore. All the while they hold on to their companies in germany.

Instead, it has to be illegal to invest inside germany (above a certain threshold amount) if you don't have german citizenship. This way, the rich can't flee. They have to keep german citizenship to hold on to their companies, and then they can be taxed.

[-] gusgalarnyk@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

Although I appreciate the thought here, and I think the investment idea may even be good regardless of what I'm about to say, that's not exactly how this works. If you tax the assets the rich own, where they own them, it doesn't matter where they go. And they can't live in Germany and not get taxed, so they can change citizenship all they want if they live here they will get taxed here. And based off of the most recent studies/reports I've seen (but not read) rich don't actually move when taxes go up - which makes sense. People have lives, family, friends, favorite restaurants and hobby spaces.

The rich will try to dodge the taxes, they may even succeed but we don't have to legistate a bullet proof solution we just have to agree:

  1. the rich need to be heavily taxed (I'd even say out of existence)
  2. taxing the rich is possible via various methods
  3. taxing the rich would solve and/or reverse most of societies problems so everyone should talk and support it.

But yes, I'm a big fan of no outside investment. I'm also a fan of government investment requiring ownership purchases. I'm also a fan of requiring companies to be partially or totally owned by their workers. And I don't think anyone should have a net worth over let's say 50 million.

[-] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

So you're saying the assets (factory, houses, land) should be taxed directly, instead of the billionaires?

Interesting idea, i need to think about it.

Edit: after having thought about it, i'd like there to be a "exempt tax amount", i.e. if you own less than $10m, you don't pay any wealth taxes. if you do taxation solely on a per-asset basis, that'd be difficult. It would be better if the person gets taxed and not the asset itself. Sothat you can deduct a tax-exempt amount per person, not per asset.

[-] gusgalarnyk@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

I mean if the billionaires own the houses and factories and land it's the same thing right?

[-] toad31@lemmy.cif.su 2 points 5 months ago

Sure it can.

Just raise taxes on the wealthy.

[-] itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 5 months ago

Just fucking start collecting the existing taxes on wealth

They are in the law already, they just haven't been collected in over twenty years

[-] phutatorius@lemmy.zip 2 points 5 months ago

Merz is a conservative. They're all like that.

[-] smayonak@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

Its crazy to me that the only left leaning party in Germany was split by internal divisions between neoliberalism and progressive politics. How was that even possible when more than half of Germany's voters are left leaning?

[-] zqps@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Are you referring to SPD? They haven't bothered with actual left-leaning politics for a while. Die Linke is our party on the left, and they are experiencing a renaissance right now, but unfortunately not nearly as much as the far right.

To answer your question: Most German voters are centrists with a mix of vaguely conservative and social democratic views. And they've been exposed to economic anxiety narratives and xenophobic fear-mongering for the past two decades, while lacking the political education to smell the populist bullshit for what it is in a social media environment defined by anti-intellectualism and fake news.

[-] smayonak@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

https://www.politicalcompass.org/germany2025

Spd is a right leaning party no I'm talking about die linke

[-] zqps@sh.itjust.works 0 points 5 months ago

Fuck bsw. The split is the opposite of a problem, it was desperately necessary and the catalyst for the Linke renaissance that I mentioned.

[-] smayonak@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

I am an outsider who only lived there a long time ago but it looks to me like the party was highjacked by neoliberals in order to split the vote. As far as I can tell German intelligence should have cracked down on both bsw and afd as soon as evidence emerged that they were part of a russian influence campaign. However the neoliberals instead ignored bsw's russian support... this seems to be an obvious attempt to split leftist parties in half. Die linke is one of the last remaining leftist parties in the g7 outside of france. italy's m5s is the other. And these parties seem to be losing to the right because the neoliberals sabotage them at every opportunity

[-] zqps@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I'm not sure how to make this any clearer: Die Linke is doing so much better both internally and in the polls / results since the fucks from BSW split off that I called it a renaissance twice now. And it was desperately necessary. BSW does not identify as left. Representatives actively reject the label and refuse to even pay lip service to leftist ideals, because they simply aren't left. It's time to let go of the notion this was "splitting the left".

Who really lost big time are the centrists. FDP, SPD, CDU to various degrees. Greens too but less so. Because xenophobic populism doesn't work for them nearly as well as it does for the fascists.

[-] smayonak@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I should have recognized your point. Yes you are right. But I believe that the individual politicians inside of cdu csu sdp fdp etc as well as the bureaucrats inside of the state security apparatus believed that not countering russian propaganda would cleave the left and this may have backfired. Because it is strange that they outed afd as an obvious russian front but not bsw. Ex posto facto reasoning on my part but the other expla ation for the lack of action is that the German intelligence service truly believes that bsw is not a russian front or they think there's nothing illegal about russia operating a fake politician party.

But again I'm a foreigner who doesn't understand the German political system.

Im the usa though they did the same thing when they uncovered a russian influence campaign. They looked the other way and let it all go down (for the most part)

[-] Maroon@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

It can. Tax the billionaires.

[-] BedSharkPal@lemmy.ca 2 points 5 months ago

Tax wealth not work!

[-] petrjanda@gonzo.markets -1 points 5 months ago

They will just move to the next country.

[-] Bonskreeskreeskree@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

If they want to operate in the world's 3rd largest economy, they will not.

[-] umbrella@lemmy.ml 2 points 5 months ago

there you go, they finally said it out loud. austerity it is.

[-] Rooty@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

"Why isn't anyone having kids? I specifically requested it."

[-] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 5 months ago

If they want us to have kids, they have to pay for them, of course.

[-] Darleys_Brew@lemmy.ml 0 points 5 months ago

Austerity doesn’t even work. It’s deliberate cruelty.

[-] rafoix@lemmy.zip 1 points 5 months ago

It works for the wealthy. It saves them a lot of money on taxes.

[-] Darleys_Brew@lemmy.ml 0 points 5 months ago

It’s short sighted though.

[-] rafoix@lemmy.zip 1 points 5 months ago

It’s not short sighted for the wealthy. Over the last 40 years, the wealthy have amassed massive amounts of income and wealth. It worked out great for them and the politicians that they purchase.

[-] rapchee@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

if you assume that they want what they say

[-] umbrella@lemmy.ml 1 points 5 months ago

exactly

[-] Darleys_Brew@lemmy.ml 1 points 5 months ago

Just before Covid it was in British news that austerity hadn’t worked (No shit…), so what did they do? More austerity. It’s fucking infuriating.

[-] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 5 months ago

Merz can no longer be financed

[-] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

For starters, cancel the fucking F-35 order and tell Rheinmetall's lobbyists and investors to shove it.

[-] marsza@lemmy.cafe 2 points 5 months ago

Tick tock on the fascism clock.

[-] SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 5 months ago

My partner and I almost moved to Germany last year and I am so glad we didn't. If we're going to be in a fascist country, I'd prefer to be a citizen since white fascists tend to frown extra hard on us brown immigrants.

[-] ragas@lemmy.ml 1 points 5 months ago

While the current government in Germany is certainly not the best, it is very far away from a fascist country.

Most likely the right wing CDU talks big now to wiggle out some small concessions against their socialist coalition partner and againt the green/left opposition.

They can not change anything big because otherwise the current coalition would fold.

The CDU can not form a coalition or cooperate with the ultra right AFD because that would cost them a big chunk of their current voters.

They currently have nothing going for them that would win them voters on their own.

[-] UpperBroccoli@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 5 months ago

All this while systematically crippling our tax investigation departments.

If I ever meet Merz or someone like him, I will have choice words to say.

[-] BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

Words alone have never stopped fascists.

[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

Then how about stopping welfare for millionaires?

Or stop subsiding e.g. plane fuel. Better for the environment anyway.

[-] otter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 5 months ago

So... The Germans are kicking all the wealthy leeches off their generational welfare suckholes, then?

That's the real "welfare state", NGL... 🖕🏽

[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 1 points 5 months ago

... without the rich paying their share.

[-] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 1 points 5 months ago

COUNTRY welfare state can no longer be supported

Change COUNTRY for any west European country and this has been said while it CAN be supported but the rich want to get more rich

[-] Eternal192@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 5 months ago

Friedrich Merz is Germany's Kier Starmer and if you don't understand what i mean go check on UK and how well they are doing under Starmers government and you'll understand.

[-] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

They should probably be executed for breaking the country's welfare systems.

[-] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 5 months ago

I typically abhor violence but i understand if somebody would kill Merz due to him being a danger to the general population. A politician has to help the people, not hurt them. If he doesn't fulfill this one basic task, he's unfit to be a politician. He has to understand that or step back immediately. If he doesn't, he's unreasonable and cannot be talked to logically.

[-] sadTruth@lemmy.hogru.ch 1 points 5 months ago

Creating 1500B € out of thin air to build killing machines: Whatever it takes to protect the country!

Spending 50B € to actually protect the people from poverty/malnutrition/starvation: Nooooo we can't afford that.

Humanity at it's best: Limitless effort to create suffering, 0 effort to reduce suffering.

[-] altphoto@lemmy.today 1 points 5 months ago

What if the homeless and poor go to war for your rich ass?

Then there's plenty of money for the weapons. So maybe buy less of that and more shelter, clothes, food and education?

[-] kibiz0r@midwest.social 1 points 5 months ago
  • Print 1bn in welfare
  • Welfare ultimately gets spent into rich folks’ coffers
  • Tax that 1bn back out of the rich
  • Net cost: zero

What’s “unaffordable” here?

[-] fluxion@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

It's unaffordable to greedy corporations and billionaires who would not afford the working to have a single dime in their pocket if they had it their way.

this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2025
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