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We need more cloud services.

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[-] heavy@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 months ago

We need to democratize the internet again, every generation there's a ma bell pretending they own the internet. Current Gen is Google, AWS, Azure and the like, with ISPs just making sure they get their cut.

I don't have an issue with these services existing, but in such a way that everything depends on a couple companies? Dangerous for everyone.

[-] ramble81@lemmy.zip -2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

“There’s a monopoly” — proceeds to list 3 separate providers. Don’t forget there’s also Akami, now we’re up to 4. Oh, and Cloud Flare… so that’s 5.

The issue is more so with companies that choose to use cloud providers. They’re the ones attempting to cheap out because they don’t want to pay infrastructure costs. You also have a lack of knowledge by engineers on how to create redundant/reliable systems.

Not everything on the internet went down. There’s plenty that was just fine. So I don’t really don’t know what “democratizing” it would gain, or how.

Edit: For anyone downvoting, I’d love to hear what “democratizing” the internet means, how it would work, or be functional. Because right now it just strikes me as salty people who’s favorite site went down.

[-] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

“There’s a monopoly” — proceeds to list 3 separate providers. Don’t forget there’s also Akami, now we’re up to 4. Oh, and Cloud Flare… so that’s 5.

Thats called a Cartel. and a cartel can fucking monopolize shit, dumbass.

[-] ramble81@lemmy.zip -2 points 5 months ago

With your personal attack your handle suits you.

[-] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

Yes, yes. Go for the low hanging bait, that certainly makes you look more righter.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

It's funny, because I've heard a variety of reasons why the outage happened, why it wasn't caught in time, why it signaled a problem with hardware versus software or human error versus automation.

I think its safe to say the company is increasingly over-managed and under-staffed, no matter how you slice it. Maybe its time to just break the mega-corp up already and let some good old fashioned free market competition fix this mess.

[-] entwine@programming.dev 1 points 5 months ago

some good old fashioned free market competition

This kills the billionare

[-] kami@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 5 months ago

We need more self hosted services

[-] mspencer712@programming.dev 0 points 5 months ago

We also need more individuals paying for “business” Internet connections at home. We need self-hosters to be able to feel comfortable running public services from their homes. And so we need a set of practices and recipes to follow, so a self-hoster can feel confident that, if one thing gets broken into, the other few dozen things they’re hosting will stay safe.

The “family nerd” hosting things for the family needs to be a thing again. Sorry, friends, I know family tech support sucks. It’ll suck so much more when it’s a web site down and nobody can reach their kid’s softball team page, and there’s a game next weekend, etc. But we’ve seen what happens when we abdicate our responsibilities and let for-profit companies handle it for us.

(I wish so hard that I had a solution ready, a corporate LAN in a box, that someone can just install and use. I’m working on something, but I’m pretty sure I over-complicated it. It doesn’t need to be Fort Knox, it just needs to be pretty good. And I suck at ops stuff.)

[-] TowardsTheFuture@lemmy.zip 0 points 5 months ago

We need more places offering the same upload as download so people can do these things from home. Here I know spectrum only offers like 10mb upload even if you’ve got like 3gb download.

[-] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

You need a new modem that supports the higher upload speed protocol. And having a DOCSIS 3.1 isn't enough... it has to be a DOCSIS 3.1 that supports the new protocols. I had to switch to a Hitron CODA because my Netgear CM1000 wasn't enough anymore

[-] TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world -1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

most consumers don't need upload speeds. they aren't uploading anything. most people's internet traffic is like 99.9% streaming videos at this point.

[-] yuknowhokat@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

Everyone with a cloud backup for anything needs a decent upload speed or it takes days to complete a backup

[-] TowardsTheFuture@lemmy.zip 1 points 5 months ago

Yes, so? So it’s fine to for literally no reason forcibly limit it? Just because old people don’t need 1tb phones doesn’t mean we should just make all iPhones 256mb phones.

[-] 0tan0d@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago

Homes should come with a static IP address.

[-] frongt@lemmy.zip 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Even just ipv6 would be nice so that we don't need NAT

[-] DudeImMacGyver@kbin.earth 0 points 5 months ago

We need to ditch cloud entirety and go in house again.

[-] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 0 points 5 months ago

We don't have to. It is entirely possible to engineer applications and services in a way that they're not dependent on any one cloud service, while also using cloud services for IaaS. Netflix famously does this, and sure enough Netflix experience no service interruptions during this latest outage despite having a large AWS presence.

[-] DudeImMacGyver@kbin.earth 0 points 5 months ago

If we want a truly robust system, yeah, we kinda do. This sort of event is only one of the issues with allowing a single entity to control pretty much everything.

There are plenty of potential issues from a corrupt rogue corporation hijacking everything to attacks to internal fuck-ups like we just experienced. Sure, they can design a better cloud, but at the end of the day, it's still their cloud. The Internet needs to be less centralized, not more (and I don't just mean that purely in terms of infrastructure, though that is included of course).

[-] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

If we want a truly robust system, yeah, we kinda do. This sort of event is only one of the issues with allowing a single entity to control pretty much everything.

What I'm advocating for is the opposite of "allowing one entity to control everything".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_engineering#Chaos_Monkey

Read about it dude. Netflix has a large presence in all major cloud providers (and they have their own data centers), but has a service whose uptime is NOT dependent on any one of those hosting environments. The proof is the pudding - Netflix service did not go down in the recent AWS outage, nor in the last one.

All of that can be achieved WITHOUT completely abandoning public cloud services and having to completely host all of the hardware for their services.

[-] DudeImMacGyver@kbin.earth 0 points 5 months ago

Yes, Netflix had their own infrastucture in addition to other multiple redundant cloud services for their CDNs: You're kind of proving (part of) my point?

[-] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

You're kind of proving (part of) my point?

How? Their reliability would exist without that. There's nothing inherent to their own data center that makes their setup that much better. Having a distributed system across multiple cloud service providers means your actual chance of downtime (here I mean inverse of uptime) is their individual chances of uptime multiplied by each other. In other words, they all have to go down for your service to fail. The catch is you have to use only commodity IaaS and PaaS, nothing proprietary to one CSP.

For smaller companies especially, in terms of pure reliability, there's no reason to think that they would be better at running a high availability data center than Microsoft or AWS or Google.

Parallel distributed architectures give you the advantages of using public cloud (not having to physically manage your own data center) without the disadvantages (dependence on any one cloud vendor), while also potentially increasing your reliability beyond the reliability of any one of your cloud vendors . That is why Netflix is so rock solid.

this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2025
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