Dishonored nailed a neat trick: If every game dev stops innovating immediately after you release an innovative game, your game will always be considered highly innovative.
Yeah, people are always like, y no half life 3?
Look at what Valve has said in response to similar questions.
Its basically a polite way of saying 'yeah there really isn't a better possible first person shooter, single player experience.'
So they made a reality breaking first person puzzle game, became the de facto overlords of PC gaming platforms, invented VR tech, oh and made linux be able to run every game, oh and we make console-esque PCs now too, I guess.
Hell, I don't even know of other games that solve the 'multiplayer fps maps are predictable and boring' the way L4D did, where the map itself csn basically mutate, have a bunch of semi-procedural preset variants.
Nope, instead, we still have the most popular multiplayer FPS games have basically static, memorizable maps.
Turns out gamers broadly don't actually seem to want innovation, they seem to want gacha games, as gacha games are now basically more than half of the gaming market.
Example of that: That friend you know who's still really trying to convince you that Fallout 76 is better now.
A bit of a tangent, but tbh I feel like Half-Life Alyx was a perfect example of where they can take the franchise, but being a PC VR title (and one that really leans heavily into the tech and loses a ton if played with non-VR mods), it didn't have nearly the same impact as the rest of the franchise. It was definitely innovative but not in a way to appeal to the mass market. Not to mention it sets the stage for HL3 even more than Ep 2 did.
Half Life 2 was about 5 years too early to be considered "basically beyond imptovement". The graphics are a little dated now, and maybe the gameplay is a little simpler than a modern FPS, but ultimately it's pretty close to the mark. I haven't been surprised by FPS mechanics or graphics in 10 years, so there's basically no way for Half Life 3 to surprise us. Dishonored 1 and 2 were basically identical. If you told me the second one came out immediately after, I'd believe you.
I was with you until your last sentence.
Fallout 76 is better now. The monetizing is little ew, but there are lots of content and they fixed a lot of the big caveats i had with the game.
Id put that game just under a Noman sky and Cyperpunk 2077 as a game that turned around.
Also valve did not origaninally make portal. Its roots came from Kim Swifts senior project. Valve gave resurces to add the shine, but the concept did not originate from Valves offices.
They did not invent vr stuff either. First vr stuff crude as it was comes allthe way from the 60's in the 90's Sega had their Sega vr in some arcade racings games and oculus rift from Carmack + team was first modern style vr set on the markets.
Lots of games use similar mechanics than left for dead to make the maps and spawns feel different.
Here few from the top of my head: Vermintide 2 (maybe 1, havent played that) Pay day 2 Back 4 blood Ane could argue Alien isolation is similar because it has same kind of game director controlling the game. Remnant 1 & 2 Gunfire reborn.
One could argue even most extraction shootters do that because the exctraction zones change place.
Yeah all wants just catcha games. Thats why games like Clair Obscur, Death Stranding and now Dispatch have done so poorly/s
Ok uh, what can you do, in terms of actual gameplay mechanics, in Fallout76, that you can't do in... basically every multiplayer, survival/craft/open world/fps game?
There are so many of those... and... FO76 basically came out around the tail end of the kind of craze for those kinds of games, they were trend chasing.
Uh lets see, Valve did make Portal, what happened was they saw a demo of a game (Narbacular Drop) being concepted at a nearby gaming college expo, and they basically hired all of them, taught them Source, gave them more team breadth and depth to work with.
Valve has... or had... a track record of doing this, in the 90s / 00s. Oh, thats a neat mod for our game: Hire them.
So yes, Valve did originally make Portal. By seeing a neat concept demo, hiring the people behind it, and then making Portal.
I mean, you can say that after 5 more years of development, F076 became a basically functional open world survival craft fps, sure, but like...
No Mans Sky basically revolutionized the concept of what you can do with procedural generation, oh and, they just kept adding more and more stuff, just to the base game, not as DLC, not as MTX.
CP77? Yeah very rough start, but uh, entirely different scope of production value, being an actually competent RPG that's practically an ImSim in many ways, all with an absurd level of graphical fidelity.
Like, everyone just expected that game to be Grand Theft Auto 5, Cyberpunk Edition, started their standards there, and then got mad that it wasn't at parity.
CD Projekt Red was a AA studio when they were making this.
They were not Rockstar. They were not Bethesda.
Ok, I'll give you that PayDay2 does actually have similar map mutating dynamics, I also have not played Vermintide, we do not speak of Back 4 Blood, what an embarassment, I am also unfamiliar with Remnant.
What I was trying to get at is ... map mutations is how you solve the age old FPS team v team problem of... if you just have better map knowledge, you tend to win, so this causes a problem where you either have to keep pumping out new maps to keep things fresh, or you have to have a bunch of other balancing gameplay mechanics to have variety from there.
But the fundamental problem is that vets will clown noobs all the time, often by just simply having the maps memorized, angles and positions figured out, etc.
Also Alien Isolation has pretty good monster AI that works with the rest of the game design, but no, thats not mutating maps.
Open world maps that move objective markers around are not mutating maps.
HellDivers 2 is a good example of doing proc gen maps... but again, thats an extraction shooter, co-op shooter type thing.
Nobody, that I am aware of, has pulled this off for mass PvP battles, like, 16-32+ vs 16-32+ players.
As for Valve not literally, technically, totally inventing VR... sure yeah ok, what I meant was they poured tons of their own resources into doing VR in their own way, they're one of the only teams that's made an actual AAA VR game that fully embraces the concept of 'you are a person in another world, a world that has high graphical realism.'
Virtual reality.
The point there was they turned toward innovating in other areas, that they did more or less start from scratch and invent their own concept of VR.
Your final quip about gacha games is funny.
Just look at the numbers dude, the vast majority of money to be made in gaming is by selling MTX addiction simulators.
That's not to say there are not still people who really do actually want well crafted, truly innovative or very well put together, fully fledged games... but the way the math of capitalism works on that is uh, those kinds of endeavors are way riskier, and have way worse ROI, than selling waifus to dorks.
I hope that actual games defeat waifu simulators, we are seeing a lot of AAAs crash and burn recently, but uh, I don't think gacha games are going anywhere... and most of the outfits with the money to be able to undertake a truly groundbreaking project?
Theyre all incompotent morons at the management level, who, after failing hard at their attempts in the last 5 ish years, are now just gonna try and hand that all over to AI, to attempt to further increase ROI.
But, normies love 'recognizable brand franchise', normies consistently auto-hypetrain and nostalgia-bate themselves, normies prove that having more than half a game's budget be marketing does brainwash them very well.
Here, I'll end with another hot take:
If, after everything that happened with Bethesda, up to the point of Starfield releasing...
You still bought Starfield on day one, or pre-ordered it?
You're the problem, you're the normie, you're the person marketing and nostalgia work on, you didn't realize your in an abusive, parasocial relationship with Bethesda.
Remember, no pre-orders.
Oh man, VGCats. I remember those days.
Dishonored (1) is my favorite game of all time. I've put in so many hours across every console I've owned since it came out in 2012. Some of the best DLC story expansions of all time, too. Glad to see it still getting some love and mourning the fact that we'll never get another game.
Raphael Colantonio, the creative mind behind Dishonored, has started a new studio! Here's an article about their next game
If you like dishonored you should try prey by same studio. Level design is amazing and character interaction/plot changes based on how you play and where you are when certain events happen.
I've started playing it and it hooked me for a bit but once it really opens up I've been struggling to stick with it. Very interesting premise and characters so far though, I have no idea who can actually be trusted and that feels intentional.
Yeah I can see that. 1st play through I stuck to objectives so I knew what was going on. Next round, I intentionally did stuff out of order which changes a few things. Easy to get lost 1st time around. Especially as environment changes.
Anyone ever watch stealthgamerBR dishonored videos? Freaking rad AF
I have, very satisfying to watch such a well planned and executed level.
I adored dishonored, I played through them a couple times so I could see both endings, and I felt like it provided a really different experience.
I especially liked how you could do ng+ in dishonored 2, meant I could replay it as the other character with a bunch of free upgrades and unlocks to get things started.
One of my favorite trophies to get was the no kill run on the first dishonored. A lot of fun finding all the different ways to be a ghost. Though I wish they had more stealth magic, most of the stuff was combat based if I remember correctly
So good, story isn’t bad and didn’t really follow. The gameplay was unique and fun.
When I played the Dishonored series I had massive Thief vibes, I loved it! I looted everything and I killed no one, and it felt like good old times.
Reminds me, time to play them again!
That game is insane. Like, I played the game with a non-lethal route because of the good ending and stuff. But after I finished the game, I wondered how other people played this game, and holy shit, we are playing different games lol. This game is very gorey I don’t even know it’s part of the core gameplay lol
Dude it's a blast. When they came out I played through each Dishonored once slowly, methodically, and non-lethal. Then immediately started over and hauled ass just slaughtering anything that got in my way. Both ways are valid and so much fun!
Its a very solid heir to Thief.
Just a damn good game.
Dishonored is my favorite video game series of all time! I play that thing every year, lol. Love the stealth challenges and all the ways you can approach things. I really enjoy the sequels too, and this year I've finally gotten into the books. Fantastic game. Also they leaned heavy into the style, so 13 years later it still looks decent. Not nearly as aged-looking as "realistic" graphics from that time. Those still look decent too, all things considered. But stylized graphics tend to fit their current limitations better than pushing for realism.
Dishonored is one of the few games that I've turned right around and played through again after I beat it. The gameplay is just so free. It's not really the biggest map ever, but it is so dense and easy to navigate. I also haven't experienced a lot of titles that just ooze atmosphere the way that Dishonored does. The art direction is off the charts, and I think it's aged pretty impeccably. It's always a good idea to do stylized over realistic, at least if you want your game to stand the test of time.
Mhm. Can't say I enjoyed Dishonored much, myself. I prefer Thief 1-3, probably because they are slower paced and have less combat.
All instances of combat in Dishonored are completely optional in Dishonored. It's actually one of the built in challenges of the game that you are rewarded for. Beating the game with out ever being seen is called Ghost and beating it with zero kills is called Pacifist.
Top it off by not using powers either, most enjoyable playthrough I've had.
Mostly flesh and steel! I loved the added challenge of that and how it made me rethink my comfortable routes.
In Dishonored 2 you can reject the Outsider entirely and do a zero powers run. That one is fittingly called "Only flesh and steel".
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