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submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by Valnao@sh.itjust.works to c/mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world
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[-] grue@lemmy.world 31 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The city ultimately determined the intersection did not meet the required traffic volume for additional stop signs

For the record, this is 100% a lie. Every single warrant document (list of criteria) used by an engineer will have two magic words written at the bottom of the list:

"Engineering judgement."

That means there is no such thing as a "required traffic volume" for a stop sign or any other kind of signal or marking. If the engineer, in his professional judgement, agrees that one is warranted, it's warranted.

Engineers who hide behind things like warrants, pretending their hands are tied by them, are cowards and aren't doing their jobs properly.

The city engineer who refused to approve the stop sign didn't want to approve it because he cared more about drivers' convenience than he did children's safety, but was too chickenshit to tell it to the dad's face.

[-] magiccupcake@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

If 50 people sign a petition, you don't need to do a study. Just put in the fucking stop sign.

[-] Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

Even if the vehicle traffic didn’t meet some imaginary quota, that says nothing of the pedestrian traffic. Just another signal of our car-centric society.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

That's typically one of the warrants. In addition to vehicle, bicycle, and pedestrian volumes, other warrants include things like vehicle approach speed, sight distance, and crash statistics.

[-] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 1 points 1 month ago

There is usually some guidance, although the regulations are usually written with more wiggle room than structural standards because of varying site conditions.

However, the hill causing an increase to the speed of the car and that the area has a known pedestrian draw to it would tip the scales more towards installing a stop sign.

[-] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

There are stop signs in the middle of nowhere Ohio, where there's literally a few cars on the road a day. I don't see how volume should come into play when you're next to a playground.

[-] Angrydeuce@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Yeah here in WI too. Like on 55mph state highways in the literal middle of nowhere, as in the intersection is corn fields on every quadrant.

Its weird, but of course I stop. Im only ever stopping for the corn, but I aint trying to have some cop come flying out of the corn and tear my ass up either lol

[-] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 28 points 1 month ago

The city ultimately determined the intersection did not meet the required traffic volume for additional stop signs,

It shouldn't be about how much traffic there is. If people are going too fast and/or there's a visibility issue and/or there's danger of kids walking into the street, there needs to be a stop sign because that actually slows people down and makes it safer for everyone involved. Even my carbrain understands that.

[-] Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 month ago

The panthers used to get stop lights put in in weeks that localities had been refusing calls from for years. You want to do stuff like this, get organized. And not dancing in frog suits organized, militant, community focused organized with educational programs and childcare for your community.

[-] Zachariah@lemmy.world 22 points 1 month ago

Just install these instead:

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 15 points 1 month ago

hey that's cheating. that was how i crossed busy streets when i was walking home from undergrad.

i had a bright neon painted metal water bottle. I would raise it and make eye contact. just like that. like, this is mine, but it can be yours. you don't know if it weighs an ounce or 5 pounds. stops traffic remarkably well, especially considering the law and the sign everyone ignored right above my head said "stop for pedestrians".

yes, i did have a death wish you don't need to ask. living in utah does that to you when you've seen life on the outside.

[-] TwilitSky@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Is Utah that bad? It's at the top of so many lists. I could imagine the people being the biggest problem, though.

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

it was, yeah.

there is incentive to game those lists. they are... what is the word... tourism? advertisement? other places don't have as much riding on gaming those lists as utah does. it's not their religion that looks bad when it's not #1.

[-] SarahValentine@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 1 month ago

That's a hard line to walk. Being so afraid your kid will get hit by a car that you do something that could get you sent to prison, where you certainly won't be able to do anything for said kid.

The city officials need to be the ones facing consequences for this, not him.

[-] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago

Courts and juries are somewhat good at identifying bureaucratic incompetence. Prison is unlikely, but the fact he will have to appear in court likely a few times to resolve this is still not great.

[-] PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

He will probably get a fine at the end of the day

[-] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 month ago

As he should. Probably an unpopular take, but even if this guy was right this time, we shouldn't be accepting this type of behavior.

[-] OhStopYellingAtMe@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

“Spider-Man is a menace!” -you, apparently.

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[-] Deceptichum@quokk.au 6 points 1 month ago

Anarchism meets the state.

Direct action and taking charge of the change you want to see is great, states fucking things up because they’re not the ones in power is pathetic.

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[-] Doom@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Our own neighborhoods don't belong to us.

[-] CaptPretentious@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

And once someone (probably a child) gets hit and dies, the city will say how sorry this tragedy is... will claim they'll do something, and then do nothing. Because words are cheap. Oh, and they'll act like this wasn't avoidable, there was no way to know this kind of thing could happen.

[-] Entertainmeonly@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 month ago
[-] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

As much as this case might have been justified (which we just don't know without the traffic study), condoning random people fucking with street signage is a terrible idea. There are very good reasons not to randomly change traffic patterns, especially outside of a popular park; fuckcars, but also vigilante traffic engineering is an insanely dangerous game to play. If this brings attention to it and they reevaluate, well done this traffic martyr. But he absolutely should have been arrested for this, if only to prevent a precedent for people who decide to "fix" other traffic issues.

[-] magiccupcake@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Nah, this road is a fucking textbook example of a bad neighborhood intersection.

Wide straight road with a hill on one side leads to unsafe driving speeds. Combined with parking at the intersection making visibility low for anyone crossing the intersection (cars, pedestrians, and bikes all included!)

This intersection needs intervention, and a stop sign is a bare minimum solution. Speed bumps and daylighting would also be justified.

We know we build unsafe intersections, we don't need a traffic study to confirm it, especially if you have a large number of residents with the same complaint.

[-] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Sure! And if improvement is warranted hopefully this will bring enough attention that it gets reevaluated. But that all said, even if he was right, being arrested for it is warranted. Hopefully he was right and as a result he's not punished, but if the only requirement for infrastructure changes was community complaint there would be no speed limits and the bones of traffic engineers would hang from every street light.

[-] magiccupcake@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

No it's not the same.

People taking down speed limits signs cause they want to go faster does not warrant the same response as people complaining that an intersection is unsafe and trying to improve it, and only because the city is basically ignoring them.

[-] vinceman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 month ago

But it's literally the same law, if they enforce one they have to enforce the other.

[-] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It's exactly the same - someone is changing the signage without knowing what they're doing. I don't think he should be harshly punished in this case, especially if he's right, but this also isn't at all different from someone fucking with the speed limit signs because they feel they know best. That person may also be right - that doesn't mean they should be able to make those changes.

[-] CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago

Much like that park bathroom that was going to cost something like $2M to install in San Francisco. Once the residents and news got ahold of the story, suddenly the bathroom would only cost $100k to install.

[-] IWW4@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 month ago

I don't have a problem with this.

Random people don't get to decide where stop signs go and do not go.

How about if someone just decided to remove a stop sign.

[-] warm@kbin.earth 2 points 1 month ago

Unfortunately, yes, they have to "punish" this.

But it's still a great publicity stunt that has now gotten the eyes of many people, a new petition on the matter would likely gather a lot more support.

[-] barooboodoo@lemmy.zip 0 points 1 month ago

How about if someone just decided to remove a stop sign.

Are those 2 situations equivalent at all? I can't think of a situation where adding a stop sign up would make the intersection more dangerous whereas the removal of one would almost certainly make it more dangerous. In your mind is the only way to regulate this to ban both for some reason?

[-] IWW4@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 month ago

Traffic control is a massive issue that involves numerous factors beyond “danger”.

So yes you can not have random entities making those decisions, There has to be a single governing body.

[-] barooboodoo@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 month ago

I agree, just addressing your hypothetical at the end and how that doesn't follow logically.

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[-] taiyang@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Huh, always weird when I see local news on my Lemmy feed.

FYI, South Bay is especially car brained, even my LA. We have a major refinery, some car manufacturer HQs, and I'm pretty sure more mechanics per capita than most of Cali. Long history with the automotive industry going back to the founding of a lot of these little cities.

It's a shame, too. The beach cities are lovely places to walk and somehow have terrible biking and public transportation infrastructure. The people there can be a bit entitled, though (and it's it just me or did this guy do it right outside his fucking home? Lol). But I don't know a solution, it's practically every other day someone is mowed down 'round here by a muscle car, and the areas East of El Segundo have a lot more waking families since we can't afford cars.

A little hope, though. I saw they mentioned the Sawtelle area too. I used to live there, and not only did they 180 on that case, Stoner Park is now surrounded by mini roundabouts. So change does happen after this type of thing, and their jurisdiction is LA itself, not a smaller city in a city.

[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Brb, adding a bike lane to the nearest stroad

[-] TwilitSky@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Ok let's change the headline up a bit: California father arrested after erasing crosswalk paint and taking down stop signs from near the children's park.

[-] ohshit604@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago

What good does changing the headline do?

[-] Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 month ago

OG says repaints

New one would say essentially removed paint.

[-] Pika@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

imo if you are going to start changing how the road is, start blocking it or start damaging the road to force a speedbump or hole. It's a lot cheaper than spending 1000$ on a sign they can easily just take down, a lot faster and less likely to get caught in the act.

[-] CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 month ago

That seems counterproductive because it just antagonizes people. His method blends in with the rest of the road and will likely gain much better compliance from drivers.

[-] Pika@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I agree but, thats sort of the point. The first alternative is a lot of money that takes a bunch of time to setup, just for the city to very cheaply and quickly reverse it. They had already /tried/ that approach and the city said no, doing it themselves was just a bad plan to begin with.

The city at the moment is out maybe 20 minutes to take the sign down, and then can go back to sticking their head in the sand.

A damaged road? can take weeks to months to fix, and requires a dedicated crew and equipment, all while forcing vehicles to slow down due to it, while using tools that are likely just laying about the garage. Don't take me wrong, both methods are super illegal, but, one is morally bad, cheap and hard to fix, where one is morally good, expensive, time consuming and easily fixed.

Our local playground has no traffic signs (aside from a playground sign) and a very faded crosswalk, but everyone knows to slow way down before reaching it because if they don't the potholes(winter kills the roads) will make them regret it.

The town "fixes" it every few years or so.

[-] CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 month ago

I just think this guy's approach is king because he put in a ton of time and effort to do it right with expensive materials, has a very sympathetic cause, and has all of the public and media on his side with the city looking like unreasonable bad guys. Another example of this is the guy who updated a freeway sign (also in CA) to better show the upcoming split and was never caught. He waited until the statute of limitations ran out and published the story of himself doing it online

When you start tearing up the road that you and your neighbors use daily, people are going to turn on you and make you a pariah which not only hurts yourself but also your cause. I bet you this man's charges get dropped and the city will cave to get some good PR with very little effort.

Now for places with a shit ton of potholes and bad roads, I think spray painting dicks or other vulgar things on them is very effective vandalism because the examples out there show that the city/county will be quick to correct the issue and everyone has a laugh about it.

[-] Pika@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 month ago

Yea i get what you mean. Also I know what case you are talking about I think, That was the case where they never even noticed he did it until he said something right? I saw a youtube video on that a year or two ago.

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this post was submitted on 30 Mar 2026
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Mildly Infuriating

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