- It depends on what you’re referring to. Sex and gender are two different things. “Biology” is unfortunately a common talking point for transphobes who inexorably link the two, so it immediately makes lots of people doubt a good-faith conversation. Transphobes like to use “biology” to try to prove that sex and gender are hard binaries. In reality, biology is all kinds of messy. But that’s an entirely different tangent. From a biological sex perspective, it would (likely) be factually correct. They have XY chromosomes, were AMAB, etc… (Not every trans woman will fit that description, because of situations like intersex people who don’t fit into nice neat little male/female checkboxes. Again, biology is messy and imprecise. But for the purpose of this conversation, I think we can agree that it is generally correct.) But again, transphobes will often try to pounce on that to falsely exclaim that you believe trans women are really men.
- Not really, because of the whole “gender isn’t sex” thing. Biologically speaking, they could be a half-male-crab-half-female-porcupine abomination for all I care. It still wouldn’t affect their gender, and I still wouldn’t give a fuck which restroom they used.
- I think I just did. Biology doesn’t determine gender. Simply make sure to cover the whole “gender isn’t sex” thing, to stave off the transphobes who think I’m agreeing with them. In reality, the best response is usually a half-hearted “yeah, so?” Because the people making statements like this usually aren’t doing so in good faith. At best, they’re sorely uneducated about sex, gender, society’s effect on the two, etc… And at worst they’re trying to bait an argument or set up some kind of gotcha moment. Sometimes the best response is to simply not take the bait, because we have better things to spend our time on.
- Because gender isn’t sex. Trans women are women, because genetics or hormones don’t determine your gender. Someone can simultaneously be both biologically male and identify as a woman. It’s not a zero-sum game where one negates or overrules the other, because they’re not linked.
You should base your response on the basis of civil liberties: a trans persons' preferred identity should accepted because they're within their right to do so. We, in return, should respect their decision.
Lot you are covering here but quick fire.
- No it is not correct. Sex is a multifaceted thing split between chromosomal, phenotypic and hormonal aspects. Horomonal transition changes phenotypic (physical structural aspects of sex) structures and changes the way the body chemically responds to fit a physical presentation more in line with the group the person is transitioning to more than the group they transition from. If you wanted to be very pedantic about it in a way that is somewhat unkind post medical transition trans people are functionally intersex but for medical purposes like determining dosages of medications and how they respond to medical procedures they are consistent with membership of their post transition group. A trans woman treated as a man by a pharmacologist would be getting the wrong dosage. In this case they need to be medically treated as a woman to receive adequate care.
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- The assumption that there is inherent biological factors that do not change create logistical problems and errors in medical care. There is a widespread lack in the medical system of doctors who understand these principles which mean trans people can receive varying quality of care from people like EMTs or Emergency services based on the political whims of the place they are in. It also throws gasoline on bigoted rhetoric that trans people aren't "real" but are frauds "just pretending" as though their needs to be treated as their sex are just skin deep and not a complex mix of complex and fundamental biologic changes and a series of mental and social challenges of interfacing with a society that is unprepared to do the work to understand these differences.
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- Calling a trans woman "biologically male" is just calling her a man under a different format. That's really all it is. It affects a trans person mentally the same because it causes them to have their physical characteristics reported back to them the exact same way. It tells them "we don't care about your psychological needs" The term "biological" being used isn't scientifically consistent with what is actually going on. The terms are "trans" and "cis" women/men because that registers the difference of experience in a way that doesn't take one's greatest challenges of existing and shove their nose in it. It acknowledges that they have crossed a boundary and are what they say they are. "Biological male" is bigotry disguised behind a pseudo scientific veneer.
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- It contradicts. "Biologically male" places the EMPHASIS on MALE. When looking at any gender inclusive or gendered language the noun is key, the adjective is supplement. A femBOY is a man who is comfortable in his manhood with the gender expression that is feminine. A tomGIRL is the opposite. A trans WOMAN and a cis WOMAN are both in language affirmed as culturally feminine. A "Biological MALE" is medicalizing that persons experience and placing the emphasis not on their cultural experience or on their psychological needs, it's fronting the speakers desire to comment on that person's body and categorize the subject as a man with a masculine experience.
Humans don't fit neatly into a male bucket and a female bucket. I'm not interested in discyssing this with anyone unless they're referring to studies from scientists and medical professionals who actually have some knowledge behind their statements.
"Male and female are ultimately words that humans made up. Transitioning affects most of the ways that we define which is which. If you define male and female solely based on the things that are unchangeable using current technology, that's your fault."
- Typically, but not always. Some trans women are biologically intersex. (This also depends on how you define "biologically male" which is not totally straightforward.)
- It matters in some contexts, not in others. Their physician should know, because various hormone treatments cause different effects in people's bodies, and certain health conditions effect biologically male or female people differently too. That's nobody else's business but the patient and their trusted medical providers. As far as their dignity, opportunities, and general acceptance, it doesn't matter. Trans folks deserve the exact same rights, opportunities, and acceptance as anybody else.
- Usually people who bring this up aren't acting in good faith, so I don't engage with them. On the rare occasion where somebody is genuinely curious and wants to learn, I answer them in the same way as I am doing right now.
- Because the word "woman" denotes multiple concepts, like the word "parent". If a child is adopted at birth and is raised by a couple, the child and their community will refer to those people as the child's parents. This is not a false statement, because the word "parent" doesn't only mean the direct biological progenitors of a person. Parent also is a social role, hence the verb form "to parent somebody." This is also why we have the terms, "biological parent" and "adoptive parent" to add additional information when it's necessary.
Trans women are women in the sense that they are filling their society's sociological role that surrounds the expected concept of a woman. That will be different depending on many factors, and will have many different aspects including their pronouns, fashion and clothing, voice, makeup, hair, activities, and so forth.
Just like any other woman, they will chose which social roles they desire to fit into, and which ones they don't, and all of that is completely acceptable.
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sex and gender are different things.
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Trans women were biological males. But sex is determined by a lot of factors, including hormones. Trans folks often use man made chemicals to trigger sexual development into the sex they wanted.
Think of sex like a slider bar on a screen, with "male" on one side and "female" on the other. You start somewhere on the scale. With hormones you can put your finger on the slider and schwoop that lil sucker anywhere you want. It's not just for trans folks though! Straights use the slider too. Wanna be more butch than you already are as a guy? Add testosterone! Going through menopause? Add estrogen!
The impact of opposite sex hormones to a trans person's already developed sex organs is mostly to render them useless, but that's fine, straights do that too, mostly on purpose. That's what adoption is for. If a trans person wants to go all in on the change, they can get the reverse-that-thang surgery and turn that outie into an innie.
At that point, there's like... Zero difference between a "natural born" woman who had a hysterectomy for some reason, and a trans woman.
It's all very science fiction when you get into the details.
I would say that is comparing personal identity to a medical definition, two independent and separate concepts.
Personally, I look at people pointing this out like I look at people that feel the need to point out to others that a woman has breast implants. It's her choice to do what she wants to her own body and pointing it out makes you look like a rude asshole.
I don't care, trans women are hot.
- Yes
- It matters if you want clear definitions. People here will probably get mad over my definitions if I further lay them out.
- You know those movies/cartoons/web comics where the main character guy wakes up as a girl one day and then starts freaking out like a freaky friday? Or perhaps he immediately starts checking out his own body naked in the mirror? Well that person just became a trans man/boy.
- Trans refers to the brain. 'biologically male/female' refers to reproductive organs.
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"Biologically fe/male" is a pseudoscientific term created to delegitimize trans individuals, so
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It does not matter
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see above
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It's intended to be a contradiction, an insidious doubt or caveat that delegitimizes the declaration that trans individuals are who they say they are.
Don't fall for it. Don't perpetuate it. Delete this post, is my advice.
The IOC just put out guidance on this and it makes sense to me.
There are a lot of good points here, but one that I feel often gets overlooked at times like this is in the history of a person's experience.
Completely sidestepping the debate, let's assume a trans woman is a woman. What we're acknowledging here is that this person lived some of her life as a boy or man. This would include the various biases of that.
A (biological) woman would have lived with a single set of biases and challenges. In addition to the huge experiences around child birth, female reproductive health is seriously under provided for. I've met many women with ongoing health issues related to it that appear to be sidelined or completely ignored by medical science.
Trans women clearly have their own challenges, but their societal biases would be different as would their possible health issues.
This leads to me believe that we might view a person outwardly as being a woman, but being a biological woman or a trans woman leads to different sets of life experiences that would likely have significant influences on a person's worldview, modes of communication, hobbies, interests etc.
I'd say that a trans woman is a "woman" now, but in not having lived as a girl or young woman that she is a trans woman. In the same way that a (biological) woman is not and never will be a trans woman.
The history of someone's experience isn't captured by the term "biological" it is in the terms "trans" and "cis".
"Biological sex" is broken down into different categories. Chromosomal, Horomonal and Phenotypic. Chromosomes hardly need an introduction, it's the DNA programming that under most common conditions creates the blueprints for the other two forms. However this isn't always how it happens.
Phenotypic sex is all the physical structures that conform to different expressions of sex. Genetailia, internal organs, differences in physical structure between male/female.
Hormonal sex characteristics is the group of chemicals the body releases to change the body and support adult maturation of Phenotypic sex characteristics. It also changes the biochemical makeup of the body, including the brain, so the body allocates resources differently and responds to things like stress and medications differently.
When a trans person goes on hormones or receives surgeries their Phenotypic structures change to conform to their new gender which mean in a real rubber to road kind of way they stop having as much medically in common with their birth sex as the sex they transitioned to. If you give a trans woman the "biologically male recommended" medication dosages of something like sleeping pills they are going to be taking way too much because that medication interacts differently with the Phenotypic and hormonal tissues of women which her body now conforms to.
The concept of "biological woman/man" is actually a fairly dangerous concept in the medical world because the assumption created by that framework often create errors of medical care expectations which put trans people in actual danger of poor dosages or completely wrong expectations of navigating their personal biology.
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