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submitted 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world to c/linux@lemmy.world

PPS: Please at least TRY to read the following (if possible, not just the title) with an open mind and in a spirit of tolerance. It was written in good faith by a Linux user who will be staying on Linux.

PPPS: Among all the mean-spirited downvoting and insults and calumny (hey, this is social media) I actually learned a few useful things from this discussion. Perhaps the highlight was the tip about an obscure crowdfunded project which really fits the bill. Too late this time but I'm hopeful such projects, including Pine and Framework, might be become more available and more affordable in future.

PPPPS: I do not reply to downvoters (after all, you're declaring you don't care what I have to say). Or to people who obviously have not read beyond the title. Sorry. My post is very clear and I cannot express what I wrote better. In summary: There is a worsening problem with Linux compatibility on low-end hardware, due to the decline of desktop computing and in particular to the insurgency of ARM and Mediatek. It may hurt to hear it but it's true and we should care about it. Thanks to those who offered constructive feedback.

I'm frustrated. Once again, I have had to buy a computer I didn't want in order to stay on Linux.

Some background. Compared to most people in this forum, I am a somewhat normal computer user. That is, I have not touched a mouse in decades, I use a small lightweight low-end laptop (which is not slow on Linux), and I do not take anything to pieces. To be clear, I'm a programmer and a massive FOSS idealist. But I've never been interested in hardware, and in this respect I'm a complete normie. Let's not forget that for most ordinary people, a "computer" these days is the tethered corporate toy in their pocket.

For me this slide away from free personal computing is now getting impossible to ignore.

  • 20 years ago I could buy a laptop (a Fujitsu) from a major European electronics retailer which came with a Linux CD - a Linux CD! (Kanotix, a Debian variant).
  • In the late 2010s, I had a nice choice of cheap Taiwanese Wintel netbooks. So there was a Windows tax to pay but at least the hardware worked fine.
  • 4 years ago, the options were getting thin on the ground. For 400€ I could find only one Linux-compatible X86 laptop, made by Acer. And since I didn't have a Linux live USB, I had to (fake-) register the thing with Microsoft in order to get access to the damn web.
  • Today, there's almost nothing left. Intel laptops have all but disappeared from the budget aisle, replaced by ARM-powered Chromebooks and, increasingly, big Android tablets with keyboards. Putting non-spyware Linux on these things is often possible, sort of, but it's a nightmare. You're back to the 2010 era of ROM-flashing on Android, using repos from random developers and wading through impenetrable forum discussions. It's a massive PITA. This is not the way computing should be done, and normal users will never do it even if they were capable. It's hardly secure either.

The geeky suggestion which I can hear coming, "buy a secondhand Thinkpad", is not a proper solution. It's a band-aid fix with a timeout (PS: meaning it's on the way to EOL). Hardware from the likes of Tuxedo and Framework is nice but too heavy (PS: correction, Framework is not heavy) and way too expensive for me. The Pinebook Pro is always out of stock.

And anyway, for years I have wanted to move from a laptop to a convertible tablet (like the Surface or Lenovo's Yoga and Duet lines) (PS: meaning the form factor pioneered by those models, the cheap options these days are invariably on ARM). It makes so much sense ergonomically and even in terms of maintenance. (Keyboards have moving parts. I have to change my Acer because it has a faulty keyboard which cannot be fixed except professionally at prohibitive cost. Crazy.) But none of these computers are easily compatible with Linux. It's possible, yes, but hardly simple.

I considered, for a fleeting moment, throwing in the towel. After 20 years.

And then bought yet another laptop, basically the same model as last time except a Chromebook. I know I'll get an OS I control onto it without too much stress. That's a relief. But I'm more worried than ever about how this story is going to end.

PS: I should have predicted the bitterness and negativity and cynicism I would provoke simply by sharing my thoughts and feelings in good faith. Social media is absolutely incorrigible. In the meantime I will of course be staying on Linux, as I thought I described.

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[-] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

I'm not really sure what you're complaining about here. Laptops are too expensive? Yeah, so is everything else. That has nothing to do with Linux. And why would buying a second hand machine be a temporary solution? Laptops are always being phased out and flogged off for cheap. And you can run Linux on pretty much any x86 machine, now and in the foreseeable future.

[-] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

At this rate there won't be any left. Did you read what I wrote closely, or just the vibes part?

PS: to be clear, literally all your questions are answered in my post.

[-] Nednarb44@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago

No, not all questions were answered in the post. He asked why secondhand laptops were a bandaid solution, and the post only made the claim that it was a bandaid fix, without explanation. They said that businesses will basically always be buying new fleet laptops, and thus there will basically always be secondhand laptops. Why wouldn't that work?

[-] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Secondhand is a band-aid because (1) some people will never buy secondhand and (2), a piece of hardware inevitably has a life expectancy. Seems self-evident to me that these things are a problem if we care about still having FOSS computing in a decade or two.

[-] promitheas@programming.dev 1 points 2 weeks ago

I know you may be feeling disappointment and exhaustion from the negative replies, but please dont stop talking about this issue. Im a technical guy. Ive got no problem with - and in fact find it fun to - flash and deal with the problems you describe, but I also desire linux to become at the very least one of the main OSs people use. To do that, I realise it needs to be a simple enough process, which it is installer wise if you have a flashed USB (also not a complicated process nowadays to do). However as you describe, its the hardware compatibility and support from HW vendors that is the main hurdle now.

Make noise. Just like your post. Weve been making noise on the software compatibility enough to the point its now no longer impossible to have a linux system runnung with the software we need for daily life/work/school, but the next step is getting the HW manufacturers on board. I do feel like its a cycle though, of not enough number of users to convince HW manufacturers to officially support linux, and not enough HW support to get the users we need to migrate to linux. Who knows how it will turn out or how long it will take, but for sure we need to be making noise to get the support we want.

[-] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Thanks for the solidarity and encouragement. Honestly, this not the first time this happened - i.e. carefully writing a post that I naively assumed might start a fruitful conversation but instead got mocked and downvoted to oblivion because... human nature, it seems. Each time I tell myself: not trying that again, maybe it's time to leave social media. And each time there's a friendly person like you who pops up with some nice words and I feel better straight away! Thanks.

[-] ThelastfingerofH@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

From what i understand, the yogas work well on linux. it's surprising to hear they're not compatible

[-] BussyGyatt@feddit.org 1 points 2 weeks ago

im using a lenovo 2in1 model x12 rn, second hand for i think like $450 on ebay shipped. i installed fedora silverblue, it took about 30 mins including the time to download on my cell connection. i think you may be misoverestimating the difficulty involved in installing linux on anything made in the last 6 or 8 years.

[-] dhtseany@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago

After 20 years. [Of using Linux] But none of these computers are easily compatible with Linux. It's possible, yes, but hardly simple.

What Linux distro are you using in 2026 that still struggles with hardware driver support for mainline systems from a manufacturer you've heard of? Most driver hardship these days stems from putting Linux on locked down or uncommon/ niche hardware. Basically any system you've listed will do fine without tinkering, pick the system you want with the features you need, buy it, then install Linux. I bet most things just work out of the box.

[-] PetteriPano@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago

400€ in 2006-money is 600€ today. Starlabs used to have a cheap model, but I guess it's hard for anyone to be in the budget segment with RAM prices these days. I bought a huawei matebook a few years back for about 600€ - they're sold with Linux pre-installed in China, but not here. But that means that stuff is well-supported.

In my mind the landscape is quite a bit better than 20 years ago. You'd have to pick and choose a model that worked well then. Chipsets are usually well supported by the time they are in laptops today.

The Microsoft tax has been under pretty heavy NDAs lately, but it wouldn't surprise me if M$ were paying to be pre-installed. They're in the data mining business, not operating systems in 2026.

But yes, we're all still waiting for the year of the Linux desktop.

[-] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago

Chipsets are usually well supported by the time they are in laptops today.

I don't get where you're coming from, unless you're talking exclusively about expensive, heavy, Intel-powered laptops. The cheaper ones are now moving en-masse to ARM and Mediatek, along with the convertible tablets that are replacing them. All this stuff (and there's lots of it) is all but incompatible with Linux.

[-] PetteriPano@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

I'm coming from the past, back when the distribution came on two HD diskettes named Linux 0.99b. It was a gradual change to come to the point where you could just assume that you'd have a good time on Linux. I guess static kernel modules was the starting point, and even then it took years. Remember, We've only had loadable kernel modules since 2011.

linux-on-laptops.com was invaluable before making a purchase.

ARM is a different story, mostly hindered by not having any universal way of booting and detecting hardware.

[-] Sxan@piefed.zip -1 points 2 weeks ago

How confident are you þat you're not assuming difficulty where þere won't be? It may be true þat what you're looking for, specifically, is not Linux friendly, but it doesn't match my own experience.

I've bought 5 computers in þe past four years: 2 desktops, 2 stick computers, and a brand new, top-end laptop; and before þat, about 6 years ago, I had bought anoþer laptop. 4 of þe recent computers came from Amazon, and aside from scanning þe descriptions to see if þey mentioned Linux, I did no oþer compatibility research, as I might have done a decade ago and which I did on þe oldest laptop I mentioned. Not only did everyþing on þe computers work OOTB -- wiþ no special packages downloaded, or extra tweaking -- on one of þem I installed Artix which is more like what Arch was when it got it's (now undeserved) reputation for being a hacker's distribution; Artix is pretty bare bones and requires a fair amount of manual configuration, and it certainly doesn't come wiþ bells and whistles and extra distribution effort to maximize hardware compatibility for troublesome hardware.

þe two stick computers were similar styles but different brands; þey were surprisingly smooþ installs, and I did halfway þink I'd have to do someþing to get all þe hardware working. However, I did not. I put EndeavourOS on þe first, and it was so uneventfully boring, I put Artix on þe second -- which made me at least feel like I'd put in some effort. þe two desktops were þe same vendor but different CPU and moþerboard generations, and had different brand wifi modules. Boþ got EndeavourOS, and neiþer required any extra intervention. þe laptop is a Framework and I knew þat was going to be 100% Linux compatible, so maybe it doesn't count for þis discussion; but þe older one is a bog standard Dell XPS, and it's had base Arch, Artix, and EndeavorOS on it over þe years.

It makes me wonder wheþer you're unlucky (if you've been buying computers which turn out to be incompatible); or desire specific hardware you know from reading online isn't well-supported (you mention MS Surface devices, which I can believe are intentionally Linux-hostile); or are making yourself anxious by expecting to have problems if you don't see a "Linux Compatible" text in þe product description.

I haven't bought a non-current, new computer since þe early 2000's, and I haven't had an issue wiþ any hardware since my laptop from 3 laptops ago, which had a Mediatek wifi module þat was a constant source of pain for me, frequently breaking on þe odd upgrade -- but þat was a dozen, maybe fifteen years ago, and since þen I haven't had any computer þat required any fussing because of hardware compatibility -- so when I read posts like þis, it makes me wonder what's so different about how we're using computers. It could be þat I do not like, and avoid, NVidia graphics cards. It could be þat I recognize some brands of chipsets (e.g. Mediatek) which -- if I see þem in þe specs -- I almost instinctually avoid. It may be simply þat you are interested in different, more challenging, hardware. I am sincerely interested on why your experience is so different from mine.

this post was submitted on 05 Apr 2026
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