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I feel like all fedi software has problematic devs, Calckey (pricefield.org)

submitted 1 year ago by skymtf@pricefield.org to c/fediverse@lemmy.world

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I feel like almost every single piece of software has some problematic dev that has racism, transphobia, or both. I recently read a post about the calc key devs and sighed *facepalm. It is honestly really annoying cause I want friends to use Fedi but than you can pull up a whole laundry list of problems with the devs and it's like (welp, signing up for threads). I feel like people care a ton when it's the small instance, vs a megacorp. Like Meta has a horrible issue with transphobia and racism but it only seems to matter if it's a smaller project for some reason

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[-] drdabbles@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

I'm not here to defend racism, phobias, or any other kind of discriminatory behavior. But if you look deep enough into anybody, you're going to find something you or someone you know doesn't like. I can guarantee it. Are some of the original developers of a specific set of software "problematic"? Yup. Have more contributors come forward and added to the software in meaningful ways since then? Yup.

Do you use Linux? Windows? Mac OS? Do you use Ethernet? Wifi? What about IP, or TCP, or even application protocols like HTTP? Do you enjoy TLS and AES encryption? What about the Internet as a concept? Every single one of these was developed by fallible people, funded by organizations I bet you'd have problems with. The military industrial complex has contributed heavily to every single one of the above technologies.

And just for the record, a lot of the people that originally designed the ActivityStream and ActivityPub standards were people concerned about marginalized Internet users. Use the software, choose an instance that's like-minded, contribute improvements where you have expertise, and move on. The original developers of the Lemmy software don't matter, nor do their politics or their biases. They simply wrote some Rust and Javascript to run a webserver and interface that saves data to a database. What you do with that tool is what really matters.

[-] Anafroj@sh.itjust.works 19 points 1 year ago

Well, the good news is that the "fediverse" is actually built on a web standard (ActivityPub), which you implement in any software you want. :) What that means is that the "the fediverse" is more comparable to "the web" than to a given social network. There are people building websites you won't agree with, same goes with fediverse software. Move on and find those that you like, or build them. The fact that it's built on web standards mean that anyone can decide to add their own software without concerting with anyone else, without asking permission from anyone else, you just build and publish. That's what made the web so strong since its beginning, and that's IMO a core advantage of ActivityPub compared to other decentralization projects.

[-] skymtf@pricefield.org -5 points 1 year ago

I know this!, the issue is 90% of people don't. If the devs on calckey are semi problematic they won't use it and use threads, bsky, or honestly just twitter. I feel like they hold foss software to a higher standard.

[-] Emperor@feddit.uk 6 points 1 year ago

If the devs on calckey are semi problematic they won’t use it and use threads, bsky, or honestly just twitter.

So they conclude that someone working on a piece of open source software is “semi problematic” (although quite how they are on why this impacts the project) and yet they’ll use software from companies run by a soulless android laser-focused on world domination or flaming trashcan of old memes in human form hellbent on burning the world down around him?

I think you need better friends and I think your friends need a slap. This doesn’t seem to be a problem with Fediverse software and more an issue with the critical thinking ability of those you hang around with.

[-] rikudou@lemmings.world 6 points 1 year ago

Why? What do I care about the devs? It's open source so it doesn't matter. The code belongs to anyone who wants to use it.

[-] skymtf@pricefield.org -2 points 1 year ago

yeah, I mean that's one take. I feel like it's debatable. I guess them not wanting to use calckey is about the same as me not wanting to use soapbox. I feel like politics of devs matter more when your marginalized, and while calckey issues don't effect me as a mostly white Hispanic I feel like it effects people of color more.

[-] skymtf@pricefield.org 0 points 1 year ago

I feel like it's more or less an ethical thing more than anything. I guess in a way it feels stupid coming from me who is using a software built by tankies (who I disagree with)

[-] Ohthereyouare@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

Okay. Finally, after a month here, I'll bite.

Who said it was built by tankies? I'm not saying it wasn't. But, afaik, ActivityPub was developed by W3C.

Are they tankies? They don't strike me as tankies, but I've been wrong before. People keep saying the Fediverse was built by tankies, and I guess I'm missing some history, because as far as I can tell, there may have been some tankies, but it doesn't seem built by tankies.

Even now, Lemmygrad is small. They're annoying as fuck. And they're pervasive on Lemmy. But, it's not like there's a lot of them.

So, if anyone feels like bringing me up to speed on the history of the Fediverse, I'm extremely eager to learn.

[-] rikudou@lemmings.world 3 points 1 year ago

Don't know the history of Fediverse, but the two main devs of Lemmy are self-proclaimed Marxist-Leninists. But as I stated above - what do I care? It's open source, the code doesn't belong to them.

[-] skymtf@pricefield.org -3 points 1 year ago

Lemmy specifically was built by tankies, not activitypub lmao

[-] leraje@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

I'm curious as I'm ignorant of this - what problematic behaviour has the Calckey dev demonstrated?

[-] skymtf@pricefield.org 1 points 1 year ago

Yeah, this is news to me as well…

https://mastodon.art/@edendestroyer@solarpunk.moe/110787482609117616

[-] Blaze@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 year ago

Doesn't seem to be much there to be honest

[-] Emperor@feddit.uk 1 points 1 year ago

And, as they say in that thread, FireFish has been forked to IceShrimp. That's the beauty of FOSS, if someone is really problematic and it's harming the project then it can just be forked and anyone causing issues is cut loose.

[-] leraje@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Unfortunate.

I'll stick with the software for now but defederate.

[-] wilberfan@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Yeah, this is news to me as well...

[-] MyOpinion@lemm.ee 14 points 1 year ago

For the love of god can you goofballs stop trashing opensource developers. They are creating software for you for free take the gift and stop the bitching.

[-] skymtf@pricefield.org -3 points 1 year ago

I will be honest, I feel like all foss software has these issues, I use linux and there are so many devs I cannot really say who is who obviously, I just feel like for a ton of people expressly People of color it might be important to use software that isn't against your interest.

[-] ollie@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

I don't get it tho, if a in your eyes good person wrote Lemmy what differences does it make? are the current devs pushing their agenda in the code or whatever? it's literally all open source

[-] resurrexia@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago

I wouldn’t want to be another statistic that boosts their user count that they can brag about. And if there are ads, I don’t want to be contributing monetarily to them and their ideals.

I feel this applies to “smaller” platforms like lemmy more - where a very defined group is running the show. Or massive ones with certain figureheads who talk too much shit, like where most of us came from.

In essence, it’s a matter of principles.

[-] Ohthereyouare@lemm.ee -3 points 1 year ago

I dunno about the code. But, they're definitely pushing their agenda here on Lemmy.

As far as I'm concerned, it's the only true negative aspect of Lemmy that I've noticed since I joined.

Everything here is pretty good. The users are mostly cool. Content is not high in quantity, yet, but it's decent quality.

Lemmy has one real, true problem, tankies. They're dishonest, they manipulate content, they brigade posts, they're a cancer. They have no home in legitimate link aggregation.

If it is true that they "built" Lemmy, it was only to get away from everyone who shunned them and forced them to find a safe place. And now they're mad that people who aren't deranged lunatics arrived in their safe place.

[-] luthis@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 year ago

I never see tankies, so maybe that's just the communities you're in.

[-] curiosityLynx@kglitch.social 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

lemmygrad.ml and lemmy.ml are run by them, the former is explictly a tankie haven. While lemmy.ml is supposed to be a general lemmy instance, the admins (which are the same as lemmygrad's) have spoken in favor of genocide and removed posts on lemmy.ml that are critical of the CCP, especially in regards to the treatment of the Uyghurs.
Most instances have defederated lemmygrad, some have defederated lemmy.ml as well.

[-] luthis@lemmy.nz 2 points 1 year ago

I did check out lemmygrad, it was pretty cringe. I'm subbed to maybe 10 communities on lemmy.ml but I guess they are quite niche.

Well w/e, idiots are gonna idiot. We have a pretty good group of people on lemmy world.

[-] luthis@lemmy.nz 3 points 1 year ago

If there was software written by people predjudiced against me, and using said software was free and beneficial to me, I would be nelson laughing at the devs all the way into the sunset.

[-] curiosityLynx@kglitch.social 3 points 1 year ago

I absolutely disagree about all fediverse devs being problematic. @ernest is the dev of KBin, and everything I've seen of or about him shows he's a good person and a gem.

Also, there's a vast difference between being a bit of an asshole sometimes, depending on your point of view (like Linus Torvalds), and trying to justify genocide (lemmy devs).

[-] skymtf@pricefield.org 0 points 1 year ago

Yeah, I mean not every single one obviously but a decent amount.

[-] Noki@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

I am active on the main calckey.social server since bevor there where 300 users on that server.

I can say that the devs off calckey( now firefish) are not reactionary or a problem.
They react quick to moderation and server problems. The care for the community and marginalized people. There are queere people part of the team.

Buuuut, if you dont like it you can use Hajkey or iceshrimp(both forks of calckey).

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