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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml to c/technology@beehaw.org

I know these are currently out of fashion but I'm still thankful they exist.

Let's remind ourselves of devices that use(d) these standardized batteries:

  • Toys
  • Digital cameras
  • Torches
  • Gadgets like fans
  • Wireless keyboards
  • TV remotes

Thanks to having a standardized system of batteries,

  • You can use the same battery across several devices. This is a no brainer but it's very practical.
  • Batteries can charge quicker thanks to being put in a dedicated charger and not being limited by USB cables. (But yes I concede that USB has been updated for faster charging over the years)
  • Devices don't have down time when their battery is charging. To charge, the battery is removed from the device and can immediately be replaced with a fresh one.
  • You'll never have to trash a device due to an expired battery. Just buy a replacement. And building on this...
  • Any improvements in future battery technology can be retro-fitted into your existing devices. And there is a high incentive for future improvement, because...
  • An accessible (due to easy replacement) and large (due to many devices) battery market is very attractive to competition.

If you look at the pros I listed, they all happen to be things that would be very useful for electric cars. So I think it would aid the adoption of electric cars if their batteries were standardized too.

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[-] snowfalldreamland@lemmy.ml 52 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Tipp for people wanting to get into rechargeable AA and AAAs: get IKEA Ladda batteries and their charger. They are cheap and japanese made. Some people argue that they are just relabeled Panasonic eneloops!

Edit: Oh also if you used rechargeable batteries in the past and you remember them sucking that's probably true. But the battery chemistry is better now and it's possible that your batteries degraded quickly because of "dumb" chargers. Modern chargers like the gray 4 battery Ikea charger detect how and for how long to charge and thus will not ruin the batteries.

[-] jaschen@lemm.ee 25 points 1 year ago

Its unlikely Panasonic eneloops. Project Farm does a great test for all the batteries and the IKEA showed no characteristics to the Panasonics. https://youtu.be/0A1GvQ40j0Q

[-] stealth_cookies@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 year ago

The two cells tested in that video are different. The Ladda 2450 mAh is equivalent to the black wrapped Eneloop Pro, but the video only tests the standard white Eneloops which have less capacity but a better cycle life rating. This is honestly one of the most disappointing videos I've seen from Project Farm, he didn't test most of what makes a cell better/worse.

Whether or not they are identical cells, from what I've read there is only one factory in Japan that makes NiMH cells, so the Eneloops and the Ladda come from the same factory and are therefore likely to be very similar.

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[-] abhibeckert@beehaw.org 35 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Those batteries in your photo are NiMH batteries... which discharge on their own at a fairly rapid rate even if you're not using them at all. They're also pretty big and heavy for the amount of power they provide (which, due to the self-discharge issue, is effectively a lot lower than the official number on the battery).

I strongly recommend investing in devices that use 18650 batteries. They're about the same size/weight as a AA, and they last much longer (both in terms of from full to flat and also the number of years (decades?) of use you'll get from the battery.

A lot of "proprietary" batteries are in fact a bunch of 18650 cells wired together.

It's worth investing in good ones - the quality varies significantly from brand to the next. With a good 18650 cell, you won't be replacing it when the battery expires, you'll be transferring it to a new gadget when the gadget is broken or so old that you decided to buy a new/better model.

[-] Stopkilling0@kbin.social 51 points 1 year ago

An 18650 is way bigger than a AA

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[-] Nawor3565@lemmy.blahaj.zone 25 points 1 year ago

While all this is true, unfortunately not many devices support swappable 18650s, either they have swappable AA/AAA or have built-in 18650s that would require disassembly to replace. However, if you CAN find a device with swappable 18650s (the only ones I've found so far are flashlights) they're absolutely great!

[-] Bobbinapples@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago

I am not aware of many devices that use swappable 18650's either. Off the top of my head the only ones i'm aware of are vape devices.

[-] B0rax@feddit.de 11 points 1 year ago

There are also flashlights with 18650s. There are some powerbanks with exchangeable 18650s as well.

But that’s all I know of.

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[-] SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

Wait, do they not make AA-sized 18650 batteries?

[-] sparky1337@ttrpg.network 36 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

18650 isn’t a specific type of battery, but a size. 18mm diameter, 65mm length, and 0 typically represents it being cylindrical in shape. 18+65+0

Heres a quick read

[-] anlumo@feddit.de 17 points 1 year ago

Besides being the wrong size by definition, AA batteries are expected to have 0.8V to 1.5V, while Lithium Ion cells (such as 18650) have a voltage range of 2V to 4.2V. That’s completely incompatible, you couldn’t even replace two AA batteries with a single Li-Ion cell.

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[-] lloram239@feddit.de 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They do, they are called "14500" (the name is the dimensions of the battery). Though it is important to remember that, despite looking exactly the same as a regular AA, they are 3.7V, so they'll kill your regular 1.5V electronics if you put them in there. Not sure what they are actually used in, flashlights I assume, but they seem quite rare overall.

Only place I have seen them commonly used is solar powered garden lights, though in that case they are LiFePO4 3.2V, not Li-Ion 3.7V.

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[-] cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de 21 points 1 year ago

Low self discharge NiMH batteries have been available for a long time now. They hold a charge for several years.

[-] thingsiplay@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

@abhibeckert I have those from Eneloop. They do not discharge that fast as the old generation of rechargeable batteries. Yes they do, but the rate is quiet slow.

[-] Burp@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

Same. People used low quality Ni-Mh batteries and got what they paid for. Eneloops have worked great for me. Believe it or not, Duracell has been great too. It’s the energizers that have all been awful for me.

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[-] Voyajer@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

18650s are in no way close to the same size as AA batteries. Your other points ring true and I generally agree with them though.

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[-] jaschen@lemm.ee 34 points 1 year ago

The downside is the volt is not 1.5volts. Its closer to 1.2volts. This is fine if you're using 2 batteries for things like the TV remote. But when you're using things that require more than 4 batteries, then you might get into some weirdness. I have a remote for my DSLR that sends infrared to the softbox. Every 10 shots, it would miss the shot. It turned out to be the batteries. It needed all 6Volts vs 4.8Volts.

[-] nikt@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 year ago

Alkaline batteries lose voltage as they drain, so 1.5V is at full charge but it drops down to about 1.2V very quickly and then stays at 1.0V - 1.2V for most of the alkaline battery’s operating life.

NiMH batteries tend to consistently stay at their nominal voltage (1.2V) through their entire charge.

So in other words, if you have devices that really expect exactly 1.5V per battery, they would only work with alkalines at the very top of their charge. Nowadays most non-garbage circuits should be designed to work just fine with anything above 1V per battery.

[-] wim@lemmy.sdf.org 11 points 1 year ago

These days there's also Lithium ion AA batteries, with different voltages. You can get them downvolted to anything from 1.5 to 1.8V.

The ones over 1.5V are commonly used in applications with electronic motors, since it allows you to effectively overdrive the toy or whatever it is you're powering.

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[-] Fidelity9373@artemis.camp 11 points 1 year ago

Every battery has a voltage curve though; even alkaline batteries will drop off the 1.5v region after some time. Comparatively, ni-mh rechargeables will hold 1.2v more consistently and for longer than an alkaline, where it's voltage drops pretty quickly as the battery dies.

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[-] RickRussell_CA@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago

Nickel Zinc rechargeable, peak 1.8V with 1.6V nominal.

Or newish LiIon cells that operate right at 1.5V.

[-] dandroid@dandroid.app 28 points 1 year ago

The best part is that these batteries don't leak and destroy your devices like alkaline batteries.

[-] happyhippo@feddit.it 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Invest in a solid charger (30-40€ will do). You'll keep it for years, it'll charge an odd number of batteries as well (unlike some cheap ones that only charge in pairs) and it charges just the right amount, then stops. Some even have battery test/discharge function, and charge more than just AA/AAA.

Then invest in a bunch of rechargeables, possibly Eneloops or something good from Amazon.

Now profit for years to come. The planet will thank you as well.

Honestly single use consumer batteries should be banned.

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[-] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 25 points 1 year ago

The 18650 should have become the ubiquitous replacement in most applications, but nooo, the manufacturers had to go all proprietary and enforce even more planned obsolescence

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[-] mp3@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 year ago

I have a bunch of Eneloop batteries and they're great.

[-] MisterD@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 year ago

I wish power tool companies would get off the proprietary batteries and adopt the CAS standard https://www.cordless-alliance-system.com/

[-] guyrocket@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago

Thank you for this post.

I actively avoid buying things with a built in battery. Long ago I spend a pretty good amount on a rechargeable Braun electric razor. A few years later I had to throw it away because the battery stopped taking a charge and I had no way to replace it. I had a drill with the same fate. There was plenty of life left in these devices but not in their custom batteries.

[-] Usernameblankface@kbin.social 16 points 1 year ago

I've pulled one of those wireless trimmers apart when it quit working. I found a rechargeable AA battery soldered in there.

[-] Bobbinapples@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I refuse to buy cordless powertools. I know it's not exactly the same as built-in batteries, but In their short existence, I have already seen proprietary rechargeable batteries become discontinued (My mom wanted to get an extra battery for a handheld vacuum, couldn't find the battery by itself, so bought what she thought was the same model; nope, they changed the battery design, even though the rest of the new vacuum was the same as the old one)

[-] CmdrShepard@lemmy.one 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Cordless power tools are absolutely worth it, if you use them even infrequently, and every single contactor I know uses them. The battery packs are ridiculously priced but they wouldn't be used so ubiquitously (especially by professionals) if they weren't worth the drawbacks. Having to string out extension cords for every tool would be a nightmare.

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[-] SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago

Exactly! It's a shame that they're becoming less common as hardware gets enshittified

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[-] LollerCorleone@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago

I still use them for my TV and AC remotes, flashlights and wall clocks.

I never realised that many people don't need to use it anymore.

[-] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 11 points 1 year ago

People don't use them? Rechargeables are so easy and alkaline are so expensive! Rechargeables are about the same price now as alkaline but you get to continually recharge them forever! Why aren't people doing that???

[-] jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 1 year ago

The alkaline batteries have higher energy density, so they can be significantly less annoying on devices that use more power, like flashlights. I don't understand why anyone would use them for things like remotes or wireless keyboards since the batteries will last a long time either way on low power devices.

[-] lloram239@feddit.de 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

why anyone would use them for things like remotes or wireless keyboards

Alkalines leak a lot and they seem to be worse these days than they used to. From personal experience, there is about 1:10 chance you'll be scrubbing battery contacts after using Alkaline. And if you forget to remove the battery when the device goes into storage, there is about a 100% chance it will be a crusty mess once you look at the device again, it can take years, but it's pretty much unavoidable.

NiMH don't leak, or at least much less frequently with much less catastrophic results. Also with modern low-self-discharge ones (Eneloop, Ikea LADDA) they last years, so they are very usable in TV remotes and the like.

There are a couple of rare devices that really want 1.5V to function properly (e.g. WMR Controller), in those cases 1.5V LiPo batteries can make a good rechargable alternative, but they are substantially more expensive than plain NiMH.

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[-] SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

I feel like in many places they're getting replaced with a built in battery and a USB port

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[-] AI_toothbrush@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 year ago

Just saying modern devices could also have interchangable batteries. There are standard lipo pouch sizes and standard lithium cilinder sizes.

[-] CaptObvious@literature.cafe 8 points 1 year ago

I have a dozen or so AA (at least 10? 15? years old) and four AAA. They hold a charge very well, and are easy to charge from a solar panel when needed. They’ll top up a phone during a blackout or a camping trip. They get used in flashlights, controllers, remotes, shavers, etc.

I keep a box of alkaline batteries in various sizes on hand for guests, but it’s hard to beat NiMH and NiCad rechargeables.

[-] thingsiplay@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

@SubArcticTundra Also add XBox game controllers to the list. I have multiple pair of rechargeable batteries. It's way better than having integrated batteries like in the PS controllers. I can just swap the set out for a full set, right away. Doing this since Xbox 360.

[-] ConsciousCode@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago

I use rechargeable interchangeable batteries wherever I can, but I recently ran into some issues with an ultra-cheap BDC "massage" pillow. The OCP in the batteries was getting triggered and the motor would stop and start spinning for 10 seconds at a time. Tried to add small value resistors and capacitors to it but nothing worked and I had to get a pack of alkaline. Only now do I remember I have a bunch of spare 18650s and USB battery charging boards that I could've retrofitted!

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[-] PerogiBoi@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago

I love these things. I’ve used the same 8 for almost 10 years for my Xbox controllers and VR hand controllers. I can’t imagine how many regular batteries I would have gone through.

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[-] MonkderZweite@feddit.ch 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That' why i actively look for battery instead of akku in some wireless devices. They are the closest to universal akku size we've got. Now they only need to be flater. And charging over USB-C would be nice too.

[-] dan@upvote.au 8 points 1 year ago

Does "akku" mean a built-in battery? Google tells me it's German or Finnish?

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[-] monotrox@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 1 year ago

The single battery cells in electric cars are pretty much already standardized in size, just the assemblies and cooling systems are not.

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[-] account_93@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

My mouse uses batteries too, Just swap out once it dies on me.

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[-] LucyLastic@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago

My Garmin Montana GPS uses 3 AA batteries and it's really handy if you're in an area without mains electricity since carrying a an extra set (or even buying alcalines in a pinch) will get you going again!

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this post was submitted on 07 Aug 2023
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