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He's not alone: AOC and others have argued lawmakers should be paid more in order to protect against corruption and make the job more accessible.

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[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 90 points 10 months ago

Congressional wages should be 2.13 per hour. They're already heavily tipped.

[-] flipht@kbin.social 26 points 10 months ago

I 100% disagree, but this is hilarious and I will definitely find myself repeating it. Good job.

[-] oDDmON@lemmy.world 56 points 10 months ago

What about the rest of us, who manage to scrape by on 60K or less after y’all have already taxed away a third of it? Where’s our relief you whiny shit? 💩

[-] MoonManKipper@lemmy.world 28 points 10 months ago

It’s about the market I’m afraid - someone with the attributes necessary to be an effective politician is likely to be able to use those skills to get a top management job in a big company and earn > 200k easily. If the gap between that and the politicians salary is too great then the only people who become politicians will have other strong other motives, which may be noble, but are often narcissistic or corrupt.

[-] schmikle@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

We run into the same issue with university professors. Especially with studies like economics, engineering or IT.

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[-] mars296@kbin.social 15 points 10 months ago

To be fair, they do typically need staff that are paid by themselves. They need a residence in DC and their home state too.

[-] Pocketyeti@lemmy.world 44 points 10 months ago

Build them dormitories in DC.

[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 19 points 10 months ago

Let them live in their cars like Americans, then.

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[-] ivanafterall@kbin.social 11 points 10 months ago

The staff aren't paid out of the members' pockets. They have a budget for running their offices.

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[-] TechNerdWizard42@lemmy.world 52 points 10 months ago

If you want your politicians to be loyal to a country, you pay them. If you want them to be loyal to corporate interests, you let the corporations pay them. It is obvious the path the US has chosen. Contrast that with Singapore for an example of paying your elite government officials an actual salary and how corruption drops to zero.

[-] lurch@sh.itjust.works 16 points 10 months ago

You're not wrong but it's easy to mix up actual loyalty and being the highest bidder.

[-] ninjan@lemmy.mildgrim.com 10 points 10 months ago

For many people it's the exact same thing. And you absolutely cannot trust the public to vet candidates as has been proven over and over so only way to improve is to attract better candidates, and for that you need better pay.

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[-] Jayve@lemmy.world 50 points 10 months ago

But $7.50 is apparently enough.

If only they were paid the federal minimum wage. They might be a little more in touch with reality

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[-] osarusan@kbin.social 38 points 10 months ago

'Most of us don't have wealth'

God damn it, he's so close.

[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 26 points 10 months ago

It might still be true that someone could be refused a top secret clearance if they had too many debts. The theory is that if someone is under financial strain, they're easier to bribe.

As much as it might not feel good, it might be logical to pay congresspeople more, if it can be shown it makes them less susceptible to bribery.

And, while $174,000 seems like a lot, even someone like AOC thinks it's not enough. One problem is that they're legally required to have two residences, one in their district, and another one in DC. So, she needs to pay full-time rent on a place in DC ($2500 / month) and her district in NY (say $2000 / month). That's $54k per year just on rent. I don't know what the other costs are, but the people who get to congress who aren't rich already often seem to struggle.

To me it makes sense that congressional reps be paid enough that they're not under any financial strain. It means it's harder to bribe them, and that they can focus on doing their job instead of on their personal finances.

[-] qarbone@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Or...instead...why not just have a residence building in DC for various representatives? Why are they furnishing their own spaces? Just give them a dorm room for their term and have them clear out when they are voted out or reach term limits.

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[-] anavrinman@lemmynsfw.com 7 points 10 months ago

I don't mind paying them more. Make it a lucrative career. You know what... Why not $5mil/year. Attract the best and the brightest... Maybe.

But make the consequences count. Any hint of malfeasance... Any remote indication that they are betraying the will of the people, make them pay it all back and put them in jail. Like... We see that you took money from Comcast, then voted favorably on their bill. Jail.

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[-] sxan@midwest.social 21 points 10 months ago

I've heard this argument before, and I call bullshit.

Having more money does not protect you from greed, dishonesty, or susceptabiliy to bribes. Proof surrounds us, but you need look no further than Trump. Not as rich as he'd like you to believe, but born with a silver spoon in his mouth and certainly wealthy, and one of the crookedest, corrupt motherfuckers in the public eye.

AOC embarrases herself repeating that patently false position.

[-] Knightfox@lemmy.one 5 points 10 months ago

I 100% agree, if you'd take a bribe at $174k as a civil servant then you'd take a bribe at any price point. Raising pay doesn't stop corruption, at best it just raises the price a bit. Trump was supposedly selling pardons for $2 million, he issued 143 pardons (let's say he was only paid on 10% of those). That's $28 million in bribes.

If we have to match the bribes to stop corruption then $28 million times 535 members of Congress is $15 billion.

[-] misnina@lemmy.ml 18 points 10 months ago

I have no type of economics experience, but what if representatives of a demographic of people should be paid the median wage of those people, with high punishment for corruption and bribes?

If they would like to earn more, they should lift their states's lowest wages. This goes down to all levels, a mayor of a city only earns the median wage of the city. It is a civil servant job after all, it shouldn't be glamorous.

[-] flipht@kbin.social 15 points 10 months ago

This is a good idea in theory, but it doesn't really hold up when you look at what we ask reps to do.

They have to maintain two households, basically, and have a lot of travel expenses.

State legislatures are a great sandbox to review how pay impacts the folks who can afford to hold seats. Turns out, the less they're paid, the more likely they are to be independently wealthy. You will never "show them what it's like" to be poor by paying them less - you'll just ensure that actual normal people can't afford to take the position.

I think it was Maine that had a fully volunteer legislature? And had the richest legislature ever.

Ultimately, this is another problem of America trying to retain an agricultural mindset (part time legislature so that everyone could go home to farm), despite the world having changed.

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[-] Zoboomafoo@slrpnk.net 11 points 10 months ago

The average income in Alabama is 49K per year. The average cost of living in DC is 78k per year. Representatives need to have a home in their district while also working in DC.

The best outcome of your change would be to limit being a representative to someone already rich enough to not need their salary

If not, since your proposal heavily prevents corruption and bribes, you'd be forcing the Rep to work a second job or be homeless

[-] eltrain123@lemmy.world 18 points 10 months ago

Representatives don’t need to own a home in DC.

The president doesn’t own the White House, it comes with the position and goes to the next person elected after they serve their term.

There is no reason the state can’t own property in DC that comes with use during service.

[-] 4am@lemm.ee 5 points 10 months ago

But that sounds like communist public housing /s

[-] llamapocalypse@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

That's actually not a bad idea in principal but would you want to live in a place after Matt Gaetz?

[-] ShortFuse@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

Congress should be paid based on a minimum wage factor and that rate should be locked for 20 years.

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[-] bhamlin@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago

Aww, did he forget to make sure he had five years of savings? Did he not make sure his retirement plan would be enough to cover his desired lifestyle once he no longer had a normal income? Perhaps he could pick up a part time job at the local Walmart to afford his insurance needs.

[-] mriguy@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

He really should have cut back on his avocado toast consumption.

[-] tomatolung@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago

While empathize with the sentiment, if pay alone is figured, $174k for two households (one in DC, one in their district) plus flights and etc doesn't allow for a huge amount of savings especially if you are in a high cost of living district.

Now do they nearly always find ways to supplement that pay in legal ways, yes. But the question is do we want them beholden to those supplement ways? Or do we want them clear thinking and loyal to the voters who put them there?

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[-] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Let me turn this around for y'all: how much would you pay politicians if you wanted to maximize corruption?

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[-] antihumanitarian@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

While it sounds absurd, between travel expenses and needing to maintain residency in the state and the very expensive DC, $174,000 really doesn't stretch very far. Instead of just paying them more, a housing and transit stipend might be prudent.

[-] restingboredface@sh.itjust.works 9 points 10 months ago

I read a proposal a while back about creating a dorm-like apartment complex for legislators that would be included free with the job with strong incentives to live there over private homes. This would also have the added benefit of improving personal relationships between the representatives so that they would be more inclined to work together and collaborate across party lines.

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[-] KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 10 months ago

Yeah, I’d be much more inclined to agree with your last sentence. The fact that a second residency and travel is required, means they should be covered by their employer. In this case, that’s us, which means it should be covered by our taxes.

If this was any other profession, it wouldn’t be an out of pocket cost.

[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

When someone cannot afford the necessary means to do their job in any other context, we don't raise their pay.

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[-] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee 10 points 10 months ago

Can't they just do insider trading like the other politicians in the US? Gotta pull yourself up by those bootstraps.

[-] morphballganon@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

Guess I'll just have to take over the position, then, since I know how to live within my means.

[-] Knightfox@lemmy.one 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I am not fundamentally against giving Congress a pay raise, their last pay raise was in 2009 and it's probably time to give them a cost of living adjustment. I'm not opposed to giving Congress a pay raise to encourage a wider range or people to run in the hope that we can have better Congressmen. There are Congressmen who come from already expensive areas where $174,000 isn't a lot (such as AOC) and so they may need more pay. Washington is an expensive place and so are the surrounding areas, there is an argument that they need high pay to run their house in their home state and pay for expenses in DC.

The problem I have is with the argument that paying Congress more would either help eliminate corruption or that Congressmen can make more money working somewhere else.

The first paragraph of arguments is a real discussion and should be solved. Patrick McHenry doesn't fit that criteria. $174k is a very good wage in his district and a quick search of some public records shows he has owned multiple properties and even owns a separate lake property as well.

So if living very comfortably, almost lavishly in comparison to the people in his district, isn't enough then what is? What is the lifestyle expectation for a Congressman? I personally don't think a Congressional job should be about making people wealthy. If this isn't enough then nothing would be.

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this post was submitted on 06 Jan 2024
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