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Considering that business was basically run by his children for a while it's extremely disappointing to see them excluded from the judgement.
Both boys have to pay $4m and can’t run NY businesses for 3 years. Not nothing - although I did not see anything about Ivanka.
Ah, I should read better - thanks!
They're also "jointly and severally liable" for the major amounts of cash, I have no idea what that means though.
It means they can pay jointly, but each is liable for the whole amount.
As in, if Trump claims to be broke, either son could be forced to pay whatever is outstanding, they can't limit their liability to one third.
Sounds like a perfect excuse for them to all fuck around and endlessly point the finger at one another and whine about things not being fair.
So (assuming non payment, which seems reasonable), the winning side can just start putting liens on property and freezing bank accounts as they see fit among the liable people, up to the judgment amount?
Not really, kind of the opposite actually. As in there's no fucking around because the judge already said each of them can be forced to cough it all up.
If they don't pay on time then yes, the court can take liens on whichever assets are the easiest to get at.
Seems to me that the news coverage of this is mostly misleading.
Thanks.
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One, the kids are also barred for a period of time.
Two, the big kicker is:
He also continued "the appointment of an Independent Monitor" and ordered "the installation of an Independent Director of Compliance" for the company
There is going to be eyes and ears on everything Trump attempts to do to weasel money around, especially given how often Trump shifts funds illegally to maintain his grift. That monitor is absolutely going to be dragging Trump back into court sooner or later. The man knows no restraint, he's absolutely going to FAFO.
Eric and Don Jr. each got a 2-year ban, it looks like.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/16/trump-fraud-trial-judge-engoron-verdict-ny-ag-business-case.html
Only a 3 year ban... interesting.
Might still be a lifetime ban... you never know...
Don't get my hopes up like that
In 3 years we ~~will~~ may know
At 79 or whatever 3 years is an eternity.
Yet it goes by in a blink of the eye.
I see a lot of people talking about 3 years being relatively short. The point is not about keeping Trump out, it's about putting the independent CEO in. 3 years is a long time for an independent CEO to dismantle the company and fix a ton of shady stuff.
Lifetime will only be handed down if you're poor.
IDK anything about this particular case but tougher penalties are often easier to appeal.
3 years is tantamount to a lifetime in trumps case. Not so his sons but whatever.
And if he doesn't pay the fine he goes to jail, right?
... he goes to jail, right?
No. They start seizing his bank and brokerage accounts, put liens on his properties, etc.
In a just world, we'd all get to see the iconic news footage of the 20s: Trump being evicted from Mar a Lago as it is being seized.
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$354 million here...
$83.3 million to E. Jean Carroll
$5 million on the first E. Jean Carroll case..
So $442,300,000 - Yow!
It might be closer to 450 then 354 due to interest https://mastodon.social/@GottaLaff/111943052849383387
Hope long will it be tied up in appeals, 3 years?
In New York State you have to front 110% of the money before you can appeal. So he would have to front $390M just to file the appeal.
His whole 2016 campaign raised $330M for context.
He's also on record under oath saying he has $400M cash on hand meaning if he doesn't actually have the cash on hand he perjured himself as well.
He would likely do this by buying a bond. It would be substantial though, and even if he won the appeal the bond would like cost like $35 million or something he would never get back, and he needs to pay that before the appeal. It's all money being sapped away from the republican party at least.
He would likely do this by buying a bond.
In the $5 million E. Jean Carroll case, Trump paid the $5 million in cash on appeal. He claimed it was to avoid the fees of buying a bond but some have argued that no bond lenders would agree to lend to Trump due to the risk of not being paid back. If that's the case, Trump is going to be fronting a lot of cash in a short amount of time. Even a billionaire doesn't want $400 million tied up in escrow accounts.
He can just get a loan from Saudi Arabia. $400 million ain't shit to MBS.
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He's barred from using any banks or other financial institutions registered in New York to do it, which includes pretty much all banks operating in USA which may have enough funds available to issue it. So if he doesn't have the cash on hand then he absolutely need to start begging private financiers to help him
A while, I'm sure. The thing is, to appeal a ruling you have to be able to show that some part of the process wasn't within the letter of the law. Trying to appeal will certainly buy some time, but not much if the attempt is unsuccessful. Given the wealth of evidence against the organization, I wouldn't think the appeal will be successful.
And he has to pony up the $ or collateral now.
This will ultimately be what does him in. He can play legal games for years with ease, but the moment he's forced to pony up actual hard cash his house of cards will collapse. Best case scenario for him right now is that he can dip into the GOP's finances to pay this fine, although if he does so that's opening up yet another can of worms that's likely to come back and bite him. No bank is going to loan him money, and his supporters collectively don't have enough cash to cover that fee even if he could convince them to send him even more money.
Any more judgements like this one and he's going to have to start seriously liquidating assets and with how leveraged most of them probably are even that's going to net him a lot less actual cash than it might seem like. There's a reason he grifts so hard and it's not because he's so amazingly successful.
Watch him dip into GOP funds, croak, and leave the GOP holding the bag.
We can only hope
This is really the best part of all this.
Every dollar the GOP spends on Trump's legal issues (which in fairness they kinda have to do since they've now molded the entire party around that one person) is a dollar that they're not spending on his campaign, not spending on polling and research, not spending on skilled campaign managers and advisors, and especially not spending on downticket races.
We're still far enough out from November that I haven't bothered to read up on contested house and senate seats, or state government races that are predicted to possibly flip one way or the other, but a cash strapped Republican party will have less money to pump into those races as well.
I think he probably has more cash than you think. Selling one or more of his properties to flip the bill will be embarrassing, but there is no doubt he has the financial means to weather this storm.
Selling a large commercial asset is NOT what anyone wants to do right now. He would be selling at a loss and it would be a huge ego hit.
Additionally selling a large real estate property is exceptionally difficult to do in a short amount of time.
That's what makes it even sweeter, this is equivilant to main lineing a barrel of corn syrup. Fucking love it
I think he can cover all the judgements to date, but I don't think he'll be able to do so without selling multiple properties unless he can steal the money from the GOP. But selling any of his properties is going to hurt him badly. He's relying on the revenue from those properties to cover his expenses and the more of them he's forced to liquidate the more precarious his finances will be. A few more judgements against him in the hundreds of millions range like this one and even selling every last property he owns might not be enough.
You can't embarrass or shame Trump, he doesn't care, but if you force him to actually pay his bills? Now that, that will hurt him badly.
You can't embarrass or shame Trump, he doesn't care, but if you force him to actually pay his bills? Now that, that will hurt him badly.
What’s to stop him from just declaring bankruptcy to avoid all of this, aside from him losing face?
Because bankruptcy proceedings would effectively have to wait in the legal queue in this case
Jean Carrol case he needs to put down the money to appeal, is it not the same here?
He can technically appeal anyway, but he has very limited options.
If he pays in 30 days and appeals AND if the appeals court hears the case, then the money will be held by the court and then he can request that they stay the judgment, AND if they agree money is returned (but he can still lose and have to pay again).
If it goes to appeals and they don't stay judgement then if he wins it also gets paid back. Or if he loses then the government claims it, of course.
If he don't pay in 30 days then the government can start seizing assets and auction them off EVEN IF he appeals, which absolutely would be horrible for him. If he won on appeal after that he'd get compensated for it, but not without collateral damage due to his complete lack of control over what assets to keep or sell.
Why anyone would vote for this guy is just beyond my comprehension. What a loser.
He's the kind of person a total idiot thinks is a bigly important bidnessman. He's been full of it since at least the 80s. I blame that stupid game show he was given; some rappers already thought he was all that and the nonsense narrative got even worse after that show was given to him...
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This is the best summary I could come up with:
The judge who presided over a civil business fraud trial against Donald Trump and his company has issued his decision in the case.
The former president could also face four criminal trials this year as his presidential campaign barrels toward the November election, with the first set to begin in New York state court on March 25th.
James contended the defendants used the inflated financial statements to obtain bank loans and insurance policies at rates he otherwise wouldn’t have been entitled to and "reaped hundreds of millions of dollars in ill-gotten gains."
Trump had also fraudulently puffed up the value of the property by saying it was a private residence, despite having signed an agreement that it could only be used as a social club to lower his tax burden.
James filed a suit seeking $250 million in damages from Trump in 2022, and the judge appointed a monitor to oversee the company's finances that November.
In a summary judgment ruling the week before the trial started, Engoron found Trump and his executives had repeatedly engaged in fraud.
The original article contains 809 words, the summary contains 177 words. Saved 78%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
But can his sons?
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this post was submitted on 16 Feb 2024
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