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submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by Illecors@lemmy.cafe to c/mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world

EDIT: you guys have dug up some truly horrible pisstakes :D Thank you for those.

To the serious folk - relax a little. This is Mildly Infuriating, not I'm dying if this doesn't stop. As a non-native speaker I was taught a certain way to use the language. The rules were not written down by me, nor the teachers - it was done by the native folk. Peace!

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[-] cdf12345@lemm.ee 97 points 9 months ago
[-] livus@kbin.social 50 points 9 months ago

@cdf12345 if you really want to infuriate people that should be "I could care fewer."

[-] ITypeWithMyDick@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

Bastard stole my line

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[-] Malix@sopuli.xyz 89 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)
[malix@derp ~]$ fewer .bashrc 
bash: fewer: command not found

:(

[-] 9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works 16 points 9 months ago

$alias fewer = 'less'

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[-] redxef@feddit.de 29 points 9 months ago
-bash: fewer: command not found
[-] Illecors@lemmy.cafe 22 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)
$ alias fewer=less
$ which fewer
fewer: aliased to less
[-] cloudless@feddit.uk 28 points 9 months ago

Your post is fewer than 60 minutes old.

[-] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 14 points 9 months ago

Arguably, that is correct: "minute" is a countable noun, so should take "fewer" as a modifier.

[-] cloudless@feddit.uk 7 points 9 months ago

Yeah it is grammatically correct but most people would say "less than 5 minutes ago" or "less than 50 seconds", instead of using "fewer than".

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[-] viralJ@lemmy.world 23 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I'm also a non-native speaker and I've also been taught to speak a certain way ("you and I are going" but "he saw you and me"; don't split infinitives; don't end sentences with prepositions, etc.), but then I read Steven Pinker's The Language Instinct and - even more relevant here - The Sense of Style. We've been taught to use language a certain way, but our teachers were following the prescriptivist school of thought. You say these rules were written by native folk, but it's often (if not usually) the native folk that say less when they "should" be saying fewer.

I know you said it's only mildly infuriating to you, but if proper use of language is something dear to your heart (as it is to mine) - I really recommend the above books as I think this is something not worth to get even mildly infuriated about. The border between less and fewer is fuzzier than you think and - in the words of Pinker - once you really master the distinction - that's one fewer thing for you to worry about.

Edit: typo

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[-] Siethron@lemmy.world 23 points 9 months ago

I couldn't give fewer of a shit

[-] stoy@lemmy.zip 20 points 9 months ago

I have used less several times when I should have used more...

[-] HatchetHaro@lemmy.blahaj.zone 19 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

when people write should of instead of should have

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[-] YeetPics@mander.xyz 16 points 9 months ago

Sorry, I'll do that fewer.

[-] random9@lemmy.world 16 points 9 months ago

I've corrected people a few times on this, but then I looked it up, and from what I understand, since language is defined by usage, saying "less" when technically it should be "fewer" is still generally correct. It still sounds alright to me, though oddly the reverse (using "fewer" when it should be "less") sounds fewer (aka less) correct to me.

[-] stoly@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago

I’m a linguist and this is the answer. The correct usage is however people use it, not how a book editor, dictionary, or your third grade teacher think it should be used.

Example: “there’s” for both plural and singular rather than “there are” versus “there’s/there is”.

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[-] rtxn@lemmy.world 16 points 9 months ago

Bash says that the fewer command can't be found...

[-] Illecors@lemmy.cafe 6 points 9 months ago

less is more, though!

[-] GrievingWidow420@feddit.it 13 points 9 months ago

bash: fewer: command not found

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[-] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 13 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

People thinking the English language is static and has to follow rules.

This Is English, my friend. The top dog of non-proscriptive languages where meanings change over time and reflect current usage.

Want to force everyone to follow the rules?

Start speaking French.

[-] HeartyBeast@kbin.social 5 points 9 months ago

It is also a tool to allow common understanding between a diverse group of people. I’m not saying that less/fewer is an important rule. However ‘anything goes’ is going to have an impact on people’s understanding of bothe you and your message

[-] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I'm not saying anything goes either but if people around you use less and fewer interchangeably, there is no communication breakdown at all.

Do you know the correct times to use practice vs practise?

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[-] Eyelessoozeguy@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

I've tried more instead of less, I will have to try fewer and see how it works, which repo is fewer on?

[-] HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works 12 points 9 months ago

So what you're saying is we need to use 'less' fewer?

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[-] DeltaTangoLima@reddrefuge.com 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Hmmm - maybe I should be using "fewer" less times than I should be using "less" fewer times...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[-] HeartyBeast@kbin.social 10 points 9 months ago

The thing I find interesting is how the mixing of less and fewer, is broadly accepted, whereas nobody tends to use ‘much’ and ‘many’ interchangeably.

I’m not quite sure why much/many is do conserved when fewer/less isn’t.

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[-] MonsiuerPatEBrown@reddthat.com 7 points 9 months ago

common usage is not the enemy

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago

Confusion is the enemy of communication. Clarity of language is critical to being understood. Correctly using "fewer" and "less" could theoretically provide context clues about what type of thing you're counting, but you will be understood irregardless of which word you choose to use.

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[-] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

Ok so, as a native English speaker, let me inform you, that whatever you think is a rule in English, isn't. It's a guideline. It's a hard language because we lack structure. The native teachers are teaching you the basic guidelines, not actual conversational English, which varies heavily on location, and social group.

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[-] DirigibleProtein@aussie.zone 6 points 9 months ago

Less people should be using “less” instead of “fewer”. 😜

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[-] MonkderZweite@feddit.ch 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

No link, no AUR and hard to google, thanks.

edit: the joke fell flat, because with how modern replacements often are named, fewer could easily have been a modern less.

[-] elfin8er@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago
[-] Illecors@lemmy.cafe 7 points 9 months ago

Well, you bastard. You're doing well!!!

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Same. It's like a tic, I'm compelled to mutter "fewer" in my mind, or else I can't keep paying attention

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this post was submitted on 19 Feb 2024
167 points (86.1% liked)

Mildly Infuriating

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