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Clock is ticking for Trump to post bonds worth half a billion dollars (www.washingtonpost.com)

submitted 8 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

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Experts say a cash crunch in coming weeks could thrust the former president’s business into greater uncertainty than it has seen in decades

Hours after a New York judge ordered Donald Trump to pay a $355 million penalty for submitting false data to financial institutions, the former president railed against the decision during a fundraiser at his Mar-a-Lago Club with some of the Republican Party’s wealthiest donors.

Trump claimed at that Feb. 16 gathering that the judge in the civil fraud case had made history by ordering him to pay such a staggering sum, according to two people who were there. He suggested that the judgment was so severe that the public would consider it unfair and rally in support. Over and over, he returned to the penalty, livid at its size.

The episode offered a glimpse of Trump’s preoccupation with a legal decision that threatens his wealth and has thrust his business empire into greater uncertainty than perhaps any time since the 1990s, when his Atlantic City casinos fell into extreme debt, leading six of his companies to file for bankruptcy.

Trump, who built his business and political identities around boasts of financial savvy, now faces an immediate cash crunch of more than a half-billion dollars — the combined cost of two legal battles that will now test the limits of his personal wealth.

Non-paywall link

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[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 59 points 8 months ago

Yeah I just really wonder what happens here. Like this timeline is meaningful and its going to open up some interesting issues. What happens when he just says "No."?

Do we expect legal enforcement? Does he get arrested? Does he just bail to Moscow? He's under financial monitoring. What does he just steal from the the Republican warchest to fund his debts? Then what happens when that money is just .. gone..?

So many uncertainties around this.

[-] MicroWave@lemmy.world 69 points 8 months ago

From the article, he has to put up the money in order to appeal:

Though he has vowed to appeal both cases, he must immediately grapple with the enormous sums that are at stake: To keep both judgments from being enforced while he appeals, he must put up the entire amount in either cash or bonds, according to legal experts. Usually, defendants must put up such bonds within 30 days of a final judgment to keep the plaintiff from collecting, experts said.

If he doesn't appeal and doesn't pay his penalty, NY has already indicated they'll seize his assets:

New York Attorney General Letitia James told ABC News on Tuesday that she will seek to seize some of the former president’s assets if he’s unable to cover the bill from Judge Arthur Engoron’s Feb. 16 ruling.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-letitia-james-fraud-lawsuit-judgment-verdict-63e643d0fe098cc1ac178c003f21a40d

[-] Riccosuave@lemmy.world 38 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I never honestly expected him to appeal. It was all blustering and threats in an attempt to bully the courts into giving him more leeway, and to secure more donations from his rube supporters.

Donald Trump knows full well that these civil judgements don't matter at all. Unless he is able to win this election, he is going to spend the rest of his life in prison. Once this country learns what he was really doing with those classified materials, and how much of a traitor he really is then he will be well and truly fucked.

None of this money matters at all right now. If he gets back in the oval office he will manipulate the courts in a way that will guarantee he never pays, and if he doesn't he is going to flee the country or tear it apart.

[-] gregorum@lemm.ee 15 points 8 months ago

You don’t think going broke and having his assets seized, and possibly having to declare bankruptcy, won’t impact his image during the election at all? You can’t possibly be that naïve.

[-] Riccosuave@lemmy.world 38 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

No, I don't. Anybody who already supports Trump will just see him as even more of a martyr or defender of their cultish honor. Everybody else already knows he's a fuck up and a confidence man, so this is totally on brand for him.

I'm also not convinced it will materially impact his election chances since that money is coming from PACs that are separate from his personal wealth. There is very little these civil cases are going to do to impact anything at the moment beyond putting additional pressure on him. It has always been the criminal cases that were the real concern, and his primary focus.

As I said, if he can avoid becoming a felon and win the election he will make these civil judgements disappear one way or another, and violently if necessary.

[-] fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 8 months ago

I'm not so sure.

We might find that Trumps support from wealthy donors and power brokers starts to wane.

[-] Riccosuave@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

One can hope 🙏

[-] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 0 points 8 months ago

That’s what you’re not getting. To the wealthy donors and power brokers, Trump is “their guy”. Covering his legal bills is just the price of entry. Remember: it’s a big club, and you’re not in it.

[-] fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 8 months ago

Trump is “their guy”.

Well yes, but there must come a time when they start to consider that propping him up may not be worth their efforts.

[-] jobby@lemmy.today 10 points 8 months ago

“His Ruble supporters.” FIFY.

[-] devopspalmer@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

At this point I think even if he's proven in court a traitor he would still get votes. No matter the outcome this election year, the country is going to be in a crazy amount of turmoil

[-] Riccosuave@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

I wholeheartedly agree, on all points.

[-] aniki@lemm.ee 1 points 8 months ago

Any day now

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

If he doesn’t appeal and doesn’t pay his penalty, NY has already indicated they’ll seize his assets

Its one thing to signal, but this situation is a bit exceptional, even if we all wish it wasn't. He's a former President in an ongoing campaign for Presidency. What will the Letitia James do if Trump asks Proud Boys to take on security detail at his properties? Don't think they will? While Biden and the Democrats have been trying to brow beat their base into voting for a geriatric genocide supporting candidate, Trump has been rallying the ever living fuck out of his base. Those promises he made at CPAC, think he was bullshitting? Trump doesn't really bullshit. He means what he says and he says what he means. He's singularly unsubtle.

There are a lot of fucked up, disgusting cohorts of people in this country who will see a massive increase in their scope of power if Trump becomes president again. They are vitriolic, cultish, well armed, and they truly believe in the righteousness of their world view. The stormed the capitol on his orders. Think they wont do it again?

We've got Governers willing to defy federal orders right now. Would Greg Abbot or that cunt from Florida send state national guard troops to protect Trumps assets? Idk. Its wild to consider, but really not that wild.

I think its naive to think that things will just happen right along the books in this situation. Its not a normal situation, and it expedites the timeline for Trump substantially, because without this ruling, he's skating into the white house in November. This could be a real setback, or a real rallying point. Its not clear to me what happens, and I don't think it should be clear to anyone. There is just too much uncertainty, and its not a normal situation.

[-] MicroWave@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I think you're overthinking this. Your original comment asked about the consequences of him saying "no," so I outlined the legal options the prosecutor of the case has already considered and discussed. Let's see what happens soon.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

Maybe. We'll see. I think its important to consider more than just what the legal options prescribe.

[-] SinningStromgald@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago

Up James's power structure, taken to the maximum, is the US military. Up Trump's power structure is...the Proud Boys or some other wannabe militia. The end result then is the seizure of Trump's property. Somewhere in there you can start imagining all manner of things from the start of a civil war, assassination, bankruptcy, Trump dropping out of the race etc. etc. so it becomes silly to try and extrapolate any further beyond yes the seizure will happen.

[-] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

It's not like New york had to physically secure a building either. They can take legal ownership without setting foot in a building and sell it to whoever wants it. If there is a shortfall, they can make it up seizing accounts/boats/jets/whatever.

[-] dhork@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

Her enforcement options will never include the US military, because she is a NY state official. She doesn't have that authority, and even if she did the US military cannot get involved in civilian enforcement actions. The appropriate enforcement group here is the NY State Sheriff's Department, perhaps in cooperation with the NYPD.

But it won't even get that far, because there is already a court-appointed administrator for Trump's assets in the state. When James comes to collect, if Trump doesn't have the payment on time she always has the option to ask the administrator to provide the difference.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

I assume you mean 'Bidens' power structure?

The right has been cheering on civil war for decades. The took a crack at it in 2021. They've made assignation attempts as recently as 2020 (Pelosi, Wittmer, a bit further back Giffords, who suffered a major brain injury as a result). Its easy to write this kind of speculation off as hysterics, but there is a legitimate history forming where it seems like the right will seize power by any means. Like this isn't made up hysterics, this is what these people are doing.

I don't think its unreasonable to expect something unexpected here, and certainly don't expect Trump to suddenly decide that its time to roll over and pay his dues. He'll fight this. It might not be in court, but he will fight this. And he's far cleverer than some of the above commentators give him credit for. Just because they can't see out side of the box doesn't mean Trump can't. I don't like to underestimate those I find myself in opposition to.

So like right now, what is Trump doing? He's about to have all of his liquidity erased. That's huge. He won't suffer that in passing, so what is he doing in the background right now? Is he calling around to the Saudis and cutting deals? Is he on the phone with Musk and others who might carry water for him so its not his money he has to spend? Like either he's going to try to figure out how to hold onto the cash, or he's going to need to find another source of cash, assuming he can even front the bond.

He doesn't have many legal options, so I expect him to to consider other than legal ones. Just a matter of sussing out which ones have legs.

[-] roguetrick@kbin.social 7 points 8 months ago

What you're describing has historically happened actually, but only in situations of the little people vs the banks. In the end, if the federal government feels authorized to seize your property, it will do so and shoot you if you get in the way.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_auction_(foreclosure)

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

Yeah, as dismissive as people are of this, its a bit uncharted in terms of territory.

This isn't exactly 'little people vs. the banks'.

[-] Skyrmir@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

He only has to put up the money if he wants to pause judgement during the appeal. He's going to refuse to pay until the appeal fails, then appeal it again, daring the AG to seize his companies.

[-] BigMacHole@lemm.ee 44 points 8 months ago

This is a total NON ISSUE! Donald Trump is a SUPER GENIUS BILLIONAIRE who will OBVIOUSLY be able to pay! This is just CHUMP CHANGE to him! That's why he's asking me for a donation of $100 TONIGHT! HEIL TRUMP!

[-] Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

Or what?

[-] gregorum@lemm.ee 29 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The state of New York will start seizing his assets. That’s what. They’re not fucking around, and it will start happening immediately.

[-] Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world 16 points 8 months ago

That's what should happen but I'm so tired of hearing about prosecutors "not fucking around" with trump, and yet he's still walking around just fine

[-] gloss@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 8 months ago

US courts are sloooow. It's only recently that he's been held accountable at all. Most of these cases will wind on for years. But the bill on this case is due now.

[-] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago

Exactly the point. Even if he does default, it'll take them months to get through the bereaucratic red tape to finally sieze the assets, after which he very well could become the president again and make it all go away.

Good god people. Get out and vote.

[-] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 6 points 8 months ago

It's a civil judgement in state court. Plus it's very popular in NYC. It will move quickly and there's no way any Federal pressure will stop it.

It's so popular that the court clerk for the case (the one Trump insulted and was gagged for) is running for a judgeship. She will probably win:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/16/politics/allison-greenfield-engoron-judge/index.html

[-] BruceTwarzen@kbin.social 5 points 8 months ago

They seem to be pretty quick when it comes to throw normal people into jail

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 15 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

After 30 days expire (from Friday?) then they start seizing assets.

450 million or so plus interest for every day (87k per day? Which, if my math checks out comes to over 2.5 million. Probably more if the interest increases the total rather than being a straight fine.)

[-] HopeOfTheGunblade@kbin.social 4 points 8 months ago

I believe it increases the total, but I'm not absolutely certain. I doubt he'll be able to sit on it and increase it by another 50 million, though.

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

Yeah, I just don’t feel like doing that math

[-] XTL@sopuli.xyz 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

https://trumpdebtcounter.com/

Spotted on another thread

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

lol. Beautiful.

Something I read looking into it, it’s 9% annually; which comes out to 87k/day; I’m not sure if it’s prorated or not. I

[-] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 3 points 8 months ago

That's a very decent annual salary, every single day. Yeowch.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Thats the half billion dollar question isn't it.

this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024

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