"It forces them to play by the rules"
They will play by the rules because that's the Embrace step of EEE, not because anyone forced them to.
Interesting take, but I am still defederating them to hell and asking others to do so. Facebook's moderation approch is to allow the most hateful cingeng under the guise of fair political speech and I won't stand for it
Its interesting that everyone focuses on the privacy and the EEE risk of this, but my reasons for leaving Facebook were that Facebook is actively-allowing-the-promotion-of-genocide-because-not-moderating-is-better-for-their-bottom-line Evil. I left facebook because I'm not willing to provide the (even infinitesimal) boost to their network effects that my account had. For the same reason, Threads is an instant defederate on launch.
The whole point for me moving to the Fediverse was to get away from companies\platforms like FB\IG,and Twitter. Federate all you want with Meta I just hope there’s a running list of which instances does and doesn’t federate with meta so I can join the latter. Not sure why people are so hot on looking at pictures of people’s ugly kids on 2 platforms.
This is why I use a paid host for Mastodon. Six bucks a month gets me my own instance with a custom domain and full admin rights.
There are three of us on said instance, and only two of us are active. It's easier to build a consensus that way. Absolutely none of us want to federate with anything Meta/Facebook. I preemptively blocked threads.net yesterday. To quote Khan Noonien-Singh:
"Let them eat static."
Which host are you using btw? If you don't mind sharing that is.
I use masto.host for my instance. They even give you a web GUI for all the settings. Makes hosting so much easier!
Very nice!
See, that's the nice thing about a federated solution. I can use my personal instance that federates with Mata and you can use one that doesn't and we can both be happy and still talk to each other. Being able to pick an instance that suits your preferences is the biggest selling point of the fediverse.
Do you want Facebook to do to us what Google did to XMPP???
Embrace, extend, extinguish.
Yup they can mess up the fediverse in the near future
https://fabulous.systems/posts/2023/06/meta-is-a-danger-to-the-fediverse/
https://fediversereport.com/meta-plans-on-joining-the-fediverse-the-responses/
And there's Google's with their new privacy policy states that it can use publicly available data to help train its AI models
They only cares about money and unlimited growth.
I think federation with Meta would be the best way to encourage low effort Facebook stye content, which sucks. Ban Meta.
Its your choice as instance owner to do that
Visit https://fedipact.online/ to see a list of instance owners who will defederate their instance from Threads
Heads up: its a long list
I won't be sucked in some other big tech social if I don't intend to. The moment my posts are accessible from Thread is the moment i will burn all my posts to the ground, just as I did before. My stuff can stay on my Hard drive for all i care.
... could you argue that federation content from a cc-by-sa licensed instance would be in violation on a commercial instance? Meta is a us corporation after all
I understand a lot of the arguments made and in reality you're right, if they want our data, they'll get it.
However, I also think that making it as difficult and therefore expensive as possible for them is a legitimate way to respond and make it clear to them that they are here on sufferance and not welcome. That might be seen as immature and pointless and maybe that's so, but I do think it's important to defederate from Threads to demonstrate our collective unwillingness to become their commodity.
Your argument is fully valid and defederating might be the right thing to do for you.
In the end, I have to weigh their cost to scrape my data against my cost to access content that I need. As someone who has built scrapers for scientific purposes before, I can tell you that building something that scrapes Mastodon and Lemmy instances is not a single cent more expensive than getting my data through federation. It's also probably a lot more reliable because they can get everything, not just what their users subscribe to. On the other hand, my cost for accessing my friends' and family's posts as well as corporate social media accounts if I don't do it through federation is creating an account in their proprietary app. And then they will be able to get a lot more of my data than they could ever scrape from my Mastodon profile.
I take your points entirely and I do understand why you feel the way you do. Maybe what I'm saying is more symbolic - a gesture - than a realistic chance of fending them off but I do feel it's important to send that message, even if it costs them nothing financially.
I only use one Meta product (FB) and only that because its a way to stay in contact with family and friends that are just not technically able to migrate to a healthier platform but I don't use their app. I use the website, with Social Fixer, in a Firefox Container and use Frost on my phone. I have managed to get all my family and some friends to switch to Signal rather than WhatsApp and I have zero interest in Instagram. I think using mitigating methods and technologies like these, in conjunction with defederating from Threads (is it going to be one central instance?) is a viable way forward.
There's also the case where it is ILLEGAL for them to try to procure our data through non-consensual means. This is why threads is not launching in Europe.
Interesting take on the matter. Right now, I'm not sure which way I sway, since there's valid points on both sides. On one hand, I'd hate to tolerate Meta, and I don't doubt they have some plan for trying to bend and twist the Fediverse to suit their own interests. But on the other hand, as of right now, forcing them to play by the rules of the open source software we collectively use is leverage against Meta, and allows us to safely access their content without having to download their apps.
Definitely going to have to think on this a bit more, myself.
A valid point was made here that we should probably have a small section of the Fediverse federated with Meta as a way to access Threads without leaving the safety of the Fediverse.
But the rest should defederate. We must protect what we fought hard to gain.
No is not. Just do another account and join Therad. They are the "good guys" right? So I'm sure they will allow third app access to their contents, if not just download ther app as any other social.
What on earth is Plume?
What exactly is Threads?
How does any of this work?
I thought I had a handle on what Mastodon was, but then there was this threads thing, and Lemmy is apparently also part of the Fediverse but not Mastodon, I assume, and Threads is its own thing, and calckey and kbin exist, maybe, and I'd never heard of Plume until this post...I don't understand any of this. Reddit and Twitter are how I would generally follow this sort of happening but Mastodon and Lemmy are ghost towns I don't really understand how to use. I'm so utterly lost I don't even know where to begin with finding answers. I don't even have known unknowns, just unknown in unknowns.
don't lose your head over this. lemmy, kbin, mastodon and apparently threads (the new twitter alternative by facebook/meta) are all part of the fediverse, which means they all follow a decentralised approach. mastodon and threads are microblogging platforms, while kbin and lemmy have a similar format to reddit. because they are all part of the fediverse, all these platforms communicate with each other and you can use kbin to subscribe to microblogs such as mastodon and have them appear in your feed. defederation basically means cutting the link between one server and another, so they can't communicate anymore.
Lemmy is a piece of software. Lemmy software is a link aggregator - same as reddit.
So you're signed up to an instance of Lemmy which is installed on the server at lemmy.ml - this means that the server you signed up to (lemmy.ml) is running a copy of the Lemmy software. Other servers also run the Lemmy software making them also instances of Lemmy. As well as you being able to talk to users in Communities on the lemmy.ml server, you can talk to users in Communities on other Lemmy instances. For example, I'm registered on the server at lemmy.world
KBin is also link aggregator software, just like Lemmy and Reddit. Same things apply there, same software on multiple servers, all able to talk with each other.
Mastodon software is a microblogging service - same as Twitter (and Threads). Just like instances of Lemmy, instances of Mastodon can talk to each other. So a user on mastodon.world can talk to (for example) a user on kolektiva.social which is also running the Mastodon software.
Plume is blogging software - like WordPress, but just like Lemmy and Mastodon, it can be installed on multiple servers, all of which can talk to each other.
There's also Pixelfed (Instagram), PeerTube (YouTube), Friendica (Facebook) and a large variety of others.
Now, as well as all these different types of software (Lemmy, Mastodon, KBin, PixelFed etc) being able to talk to other instances of the same software on other servers, because they are all underpinned by a single method of passing information called ActivityPub, each type of software can also talk to each other - so you as a Lemmy user can also see posts (like the one you and I are responding to) from a user on a server running an instance of Plume. Some people here are commenting from a Mastodon instance. All these things are loosely joined together making a joined (federated) universe - the fediverse.
A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it's related services using ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, KBin, etc).
If you wanted to get help with moderating your own community then head over to !moderators@lemmy.world!
Learn more at these websites: Join The Fediverse Wiki, Fediverse.info, Wikipedia Page, The Federation Info (Stats), FediDB (Stats), Sub Rehab (Reddit Migration), Search Lemmy