High school boys are trending conservative (thehill.com)

submitted 2 years ago by trashhalo@beehaw.org to c/politics@beehaw.org

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While many believe young people are becoming more liberal, data shows that 12th grade boys are nearly twice as likely to identify as conservative compared to liberal. Around 25% of high school seniors identify as conservative while only 13% identify as liberal. In contrast, the share of 12th grade girls identifying as liberal has risen to 30%. Many factors may contribute to this trend, including the rhetoric of Donald Trump which appealed to disaffected young men, and the focus of progressive movements on issues of gender and racial equality which some young men perceive as a "matriarchy." However, most high school seniors claim no political identity, and many boys in high school do not actively discuss

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[-] jherazob@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

I keep feeling that there's a disaster being brewed there, the only people paying attention to young boys seems to be the alt right, and there's a need for this which everybody seems to dismiss, every single one of the old style support structures for masculinity have been dismantled over decades, and while they were right to be dismantled all these boys still need the support to actually grow into decent people, and no one is giving it, and these crazies have noticed and are using it as breeding ground for soldiers for their cause. The decent people side must create something for them even if it's to avoid them falling into these dens of craziness.

[-] Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

Exactly. The response among the left seems to be "ha, fuck em" which is a terrible plan

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[-] Jaysyn@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

I was a card carrying Libertarian after high school, before my sense of empathy developed more fully.

[-] Roundcat@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

In many ways I still consider myself libertarian, but moreso in anti authority leaning than Republican but with a cooler label. Many of my peers in highschool and university clicked with the pro guns, pro expression sentiment, but when it came actually letting queer people and religious minorities live their lives, or allowing women control over their own bodies and healthcare, they always seemed to side with the Authoritarians in power threatening the to restrict these people. Not to mention many of them had no problem with authority as long as it came from a corporate entity or oligarch.

I still identify with the term Libertarian, but have stopped using it because it truly doesn't represent what it was supposed to mean anymore.

[-] lackthought@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 2 years ago

yeah it’s a shame that libertarian basically means closeted republican these days

is there a better term?

I’d consider myself pretty libertarian-minded in the whole ‘you live your life and I live mine’ style, but not in the ‘let corporations do whatever they want to workers and the environment’ style

[-] Roundcat@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

I often go with Anti-Authoritarian when describing my beliefs. I've played around with the Anarchist label as well, though it seems to have the same affect on Communists who want an edgier label (which is ironic, considering both groups have clashed with each other throughout history)

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[-] shanghaibebop@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

The left needs to own healthy masculinity and properly address very legitimate issues that disproportionally hurt boys in our society.

Otherwise we will lose a whole generation to toxic male role models in the manosphere.

[-] minh2134@programming.dev 1 points 2 years ago

This, want it or not, it is not hard for boys to feel incredibly alienated in the left hemisphere. We gone from "girls have issues too" to "only girls can have issues". It's ridiculous, and even more ridiculous when you remember that girls reach their growth spurt sooner than boys, effectively eliminating many of the purported advantages of boys over girl, making them feel even more alienated.

[-] abraxas@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I'm pretty far left and in my entire life I've never experienced "only girls can have issues" as more than an extreme fringe statement.

What I tend to see regarding men is how they, too, are victims of toxic masculinity, taught to internalize their emotions until they have literal breakdowns. The Left gives a fuck about that, and it's one of the cited reasons they have problems with toxic masculinity.

[-] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 1 points 2 years ago

I wonder where you get the impression that "the left" is saying "only girls can have issues"? It feels to me like people have spun this reactionary tale in the backlash to feminism but no one is actually saying that.

It is like every time someone tries to talk about issues women face this is seen as an attack on men. Which I find frankly ridiculous. At the same time, in many cases when people bring up boy's or men's issues they will only do so while simultaneously attacking feminist talking points. This is especially prevalent on social media platforms like Reddit and YouTube.

It does seem like anti-feminists and sometimes straight up misogynistic people have monopolized the entire discussion surrounding men's issues. When you look up information regarding issues men face it is really hard to not end up in a hateful corner of the internet. Some of these sources do not actually have the people looking for help at heart, they are simply anti-feminist and will even go so far as to provide inaccurate information or withhold information just so that they can keep up their narrative.

[-] crystal@feddit.de 1 points 2 years ago

in many cases when people bring up boy's or men's issues they will only do so while simultaneously attacking feminist talking points.

This is very much a talking point by "only girls can have issues" people.

"Men don't have issues, men's rights groups only exist to spread misogyny!"

That is a key point of why the idea that men's issues are not taken seriously is spreading, because simply talking about / focusing on men's issues quickly gets people labled as misogynists.

This both gets people to stop caring about the idea of misogynism, because "apparently simply talking about men's issues is misogyny", and thereby also pushes people to develop more problematic views.

[-] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 1 points 2 years ago

because simply talking about / focusing on men’s issues quickly gets people labled as misogynists.

This is simply not true.

[-] mnrockclimber@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I read a great WaPo article on this recently. Basically on the left, no one can define healthy masculinity and it's really opened up a spot for the right wing to swoop in and define it for us.

[-] rambaroo@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

The rate of girls identitying as liberal is significantly higher and unlike the conservative boys, the rate hasn't started dropping off. Probably because the girls face actual threats to their freedoms, while the conservative boys' complaints are about a bunch of imaginary nonsense.

But of course it's boys who get the headline. The hill is a right wing dumpster bin.

[-] Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

while the conservative boys’ complaints are about a bunch of imaginary nonsense.

The verbalized complaints, yes.

The passive misandry that's pushing boys right is a very real thing.

[-] prd@beehaw.org 1 points 2 years ago

Please define passive misandry

[-] Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

A dismissal or lack of consideration for the unique issues facing men and boys and the unique solutions they require. Focusing exclusively on women and girls. Viewing boys as defective girls.

In this thread, here's a few specific examples

Let’s use their own “reports” to show those women that their boyfriends/husbands/fathers think they own them.

The rate of girls identitying as liberal is significantly higher[...]Probably because the girls face actual threats to their freedoms, while the conservative boys’ complaints are about a bunch of imaginary nonsense.

I was a “Fox News”-viewing turd in high school, too[...]then I grew up.

It's passive because it's not direct and focused. It's more neglect than abuse. Men's problems are not just secondary; they're not even worth consideration, and men should just Fix It Themselves.

Schools in particular are extremely geared towards focusing on girls and their successful development.

[-] rambaroo@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

What male -specific rights are currently threatened or actively being removed?

[-] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago

Several boys only organizations or programs have changed to accepting all genders. Meanwhile, most girls only organizations or programs have remained girls only.

[-] Juno@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago

This is right wing nonsense right here ^

What you just said (even if it were true, which I don't actually believe to be the case) what you said is NOT-infringing on anyone's rights.

[-] Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

Recess. Unstructured outdoor play including monitored roughhousing.

[-] prd@beehaw.org 1 points 2 years ago

Do you have kids? I do. My boy has more than enough unstructured outdoor play and comes home scraped up all the time. I've volunteered as a lunch / recess monitor. They're doing just fine and doing young boy things.

[-] I_hate_you_welcome@feddit.nl 1 points 2 years ago

Good anecdotal evidence, the numbers are against you

[-] Perfide@reddthat.com 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

lol what are you smoking? Recess hasn't gone anywhere lmao. In fact, I fucking wish I had as cool of a playground for recess as my nephew does when I was a kid. Shit's fancy as fuck, all kinds of monkey bars, rock walls, a puke-a-tron that puts the merry-go-rounds of old to shame, etc... Mind you, he goes to school in a super liberal school district of an already very liberal state. The park district playgrounds have gotten way cooler too, one of the playgrounds at my local park has a fucking zipline now.

The fact that fucking recess is the best you could come up with, and it's just blatantly not even fucking true, says it all.

Also, girls like outdoor recess too, MORE so than boys, actually, in my experience. What a weird thing to gender.

[-] circularfish@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

The gender performance gap in primary and secondary education is, however, well documented, with girls outperforming boys to a statistically significant degree in ELA across the board, but with variability from school district to school district in math. Interestingly, boys tend to outperform girls in math mostly in higher income school districts, suggesting that two things can be true at once: patriarchal attitudes around boys and math performance can and do persist, mostly in white bread communities, AND, the educational system as a whole may be failing some boys, mostly in lower income communities.

Where the discussion gets gross, of course, is where MRA types use these statistics as a justification for misogyny, or on the flip side where those sensitive to that go out of their way to wave stats like this away, sometimes even making a ‘boys will be boys’ argument that is historically problematic for completely different reasons and in the end amounts to blaming the kids for the problem.

Again, two things can be true at once - society is still male dominated and victimizes women in many facets of life. At the same time, the little boys struggling at school … mostly in poor neighborhoods … aren’t the root of the problem, and certainly aren’t the ‘dominant class’ referred to above. The conversation should not be a zero sum game where recognizing the challenges of one group means you are trivializing the challenges of another.

(Though in fairness many do try to make it thus, so the caution is understandable).

[-] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 1 points 2 years ago

I find it interesting that boys suddenly are described as "struggling" but only when girls started to slightly outperform them in certain classes. School was designed with boys in mind and somehow they never struggled before. For me the reason is obvious, school is perhaps the one field in life where the sexist upbringing of girls gives them a slight advantage because they are raised to be pleasing and responsible.

[-] circularfish@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago

For me the reason is obvious, school is perhaps the one field in life where the sexist upbringing of girls gives them a slight advantage because they are raised to be pleasing and responsible.

I can definitely see where that reasoning is coming from. It would be interesting to cross reference school performance against a survey of gendered parental attitudes regarding classroom behavior and to see if there have been shifts over time.

[-] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 1 points 2 years ago

The attitude of your parents isn't the major influence, though. In a society that pushes for gender roles, while you can still try as a parent to not enforce them, this won't help much.

When you look at studies (and there are many which analyse the disparities in school) they often conclude it is because basically teachers like the girls more since they are more often quiet and tidy. Sadly, many studies who used anonymised tests still had handwritten tests or don't mention whether they were handwritten, which I think is a huge oversight.

Also, boys are globally less likely to spend time on their homework, which was directly linked to worse grades. Here is an interesting bigger study: OECD study Underperformance in Boys

Interestingly, even with better grades, people still overall believe girls are good in school because they are diligent and boys are good because they are intelligent. I wonder if that couldn't also influence the way some teachers give marks. The stereotype that girls lack talent

[-] Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

in my experience

We can trade anecdotes (and insults) all day long and none of it means a thing. You asked for a specific example and I gave you one. Just the first one off the top of my head. Schools in my area are canceling unstructured outdoor play time, which hurts boys more than girls.

Here's one you're probably more familiar with, since it's nationwide: men being pushed out of careers in education.

I'm sure you'll just move the goalposts on that one too though. "Ah but it's not GOVERNMENT doing it so it doesn't count!" or "I know a male teacher so it doesn't count!"

[-] rambaroo@beehaw.org 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

You didn't give an example of shit. I asked for an example of how boys' rights are being treated and you come up with some wussy nonsense about recess. Give me a break. No one has a "right" to recess, even if your complaints about it were true, which they aren't.

Your ideology is a fragile, weak joke. It's pathetic that the right thinks they own masculinity and strength while acting like a bunch of whiny wimps.

[-] circularfish@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago

Got a citation for that? I was of the impression that — especially at the primary level — schools were going out of their way to recruit more male teachers. Now retention may be a different matter. I could be wrong on both counts, though and would like to educate myself.

[-] Aesthesiaphilia@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

If they are, it doesn't seem to be working: https://www.menteach.org/resources/data_about_men_teachers/

[-] circularfish@beehaw.org 1 points 2 years ago

Unless I'm reading it wrong, this is showing a modest but positive increase in the percentage of male elementary school teachers since the 90's.

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[-] superflippy@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago

I suspect it’s less due to the rhetoric of Donald Trump & more due to the influence of Andrew Tate, Jordan Peterson & Joe Rogan.

[-] bigkix@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago

No, those personalities rose due to the mainstream (mainly left) not being able to discuss normal masculinity and overall only portraying masculinity as something toxic. When you go in one radical direction, you get radical response (Tate, etc).

We need normal, non-partisan discussion and stance towards masculinity.

[-] Sightline@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago

What is "normal masculinity"?

[-] CrypticFawn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I partially blame the Left for not addressing mental health issues for our younger boys and men and not doing a better job at expressing what healthy, happy masculinity actually looks like. So the likes of Andrew Taint, Joe Rogan, Matt Walsh and the likes basically swooped in and took that over.

I've got a 15 year old nephew who's starting his Sophomore year in like a week. I've already heard him say some rather disturbing extremist right-wing shit, and sadly his father fucking sucks at being a father so correcting him hasn't been easy for me (I'm the aunt, his mother is not currently in the picture). And he says this shit with his little sister around too.

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this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2023

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