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submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

While some contractors dismiss the plan as political rhetoric, many say they can’t afford to lose more people from an aging, immigrant-dependent workforce still short of nearly 400,000 people.

Both presidential candidates promise to build more homes. One promises to deport hundreds of thousands of people who build them.

Former President Donald Trump's pledge to "launch the largest deportation operation in the history of our country" would hamstring construction firms already facing labor shortages and push record home prices higher, say industry leaders, contractors and economists.

"It would be detrimental to the construction industry and our labor supply and exacerbate our housing affordability problems," said Jim Tobin, CEO of the National Association of Home Builders. The trade group considers foreign-born workers, regardless of legal status, "a vital and flexible source of labor" to builders, estimating they fill 30% of trade jobs like carpentry, plastering, masonry and electrical roles.

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[-] Yeller_king@reddthat.com 4 points 7 hours ago

If you want an economy where every citizen has a chance to be middle class, you have to find some other source of labor to do working class jobs. That's why we shouldn't even want American citizens to do these jobs. Bring in immigrants that get paid well relative to where they came from to do that stuff and send our citizens to school and do middle class work. It's a win-win for all involved.

That's not even mentioning our problem with an aging population that requires immigration to sustain social programs.

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[-] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 hours ago

We should be building apartments, stop building unscalable housing

[-] Dead_or_Alive@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago

Orrrr how about everyone has the freedom to live in the dwelling of their choice that they can afford .

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[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 23 points 12 hours ago

Why not pay builders a fair wage then?

It's certainly not labour costs driving up house prices.

[-] anon_8675309@lemmy.world 9 points 9 hours ago

Not always about the wage. You could pay 200k per year and still have trouble finding people willing to climb up on a roof day in and day out.

[-] hglman@lemmy.ml 8 points 9 hours ago

Then the wages are still too low...

[-] anon_8675309@lemmy.world -1 points 9 hours ago

It really is not that simple.

[-] Dogiedog64@lemmy.world 4 points 8 hours ago

It really IS that simple. You tell some schmuck off the street "I will pay you $300K a year to climb on roofs and nail down shingles all day.", you really think they'll say no? I don't. Same with retail, same with food service, same with sales, painting, engineering, and more.

Historically underpaying job markets aren't experiencing a """"labor shortage"""" from lack of openings or bad press, they're just finally realizing that paying people like shit then treating them poorly isn't going to get them more workers.

[-] dragonflyteaparty@lemmy.world 1 points 7 hours ago

They will say no especially when they hear his dangerous it is. My uncle fell off the roof and ended up with a hernia. It took forever to do the surgery to fix it. And really, 300k? How expensive do you think that's going to make a house? As much as I hate the idea there's only so much that you can charge for something. We'd have to somehow go after the corporation for unprecedented profit in addition to raising wages.

[-] anon_8675309@lemmy.world 1 points 7 hours ago

They’ll say yes. They won’t last long. The churn will be great and then there will be shortage. It really isn’t as simple as pay.

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[-] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago

Everything to maximize profits. and one should examine the US agricultural sector that relies heavily on cheap illegal labor.

[-] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 13 points 12 hours ago

We also wouldn't have, you know, food, since agriculture and meat-packing are heavily dependent on undocumented immigrants and almost every kitchen in every restaurant in the country is staffed with undocumented immigrants. I want to think that the importance of food and housing would make Republicans not actually do this, but you never know with these crazy fuckwits. Perhaps they think child and prison labor would make an adequate replacement.

[-] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 hours ago

The right wing listened to Milton Friedman talk about illegal immigration and went 'yeah!', missing the point entirely.

[-] JesusSon@lemmy.world 59 points 21 hours ago

Here's the thing these fucking racist shitbags are not telling you. If the country the illegal immigrants came from won't take them back then the sending country can do shit all to make them. That teams no deportation. No deportation means indefinite detention. Indefinite detention means free labor. I harbor no illusions that this hasn't been the plan from the start.

The world is at a tipping point. Do we backslide into slavery and genocide, or do we stand against it? It's not looking good. I, for one, never thought I would see a time when Americans would so blindly goose-step their way into fascism.

[-] someguy3@lemmy.world 10 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

Umm you don't have to take back your citizens? Are you sure?

I read a great legal comment once about how revoking citizenship sounds cool but is really bad for pretty much exactly this reason. You're left in this weird legal limbo with no country to go to (in that case to face criminal legal process).

[-] Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world 13 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

Here in the UK there have been a few cases of people of people who scampered off to join Isis etc who have had their citizenship removed and are unable to return to the country. I'm not a law-knower but I think this is pretty legally iffy, it certainly happens though.

[-] Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 15 hours ago

I am 90% sure that was only people with dual citizenship

[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 3 points 10 hours ago

Most likely. I don't think you're allowed to knowingly make a person stateless.

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[-] sparky@lemmy.federate.cc 42 points 23 hours ago

That’s because these anti immigrant views aren’t supported by data, or logic, or common sense. It’s not like Americans are lining up to do the jobs immigrants are taking. The US can’t function as a society today without those immigrants. But the right just wants to coddle its racist base with “brown man bad”.

[-] NobodyElse@sh.itjust.works 50 points 22 hours ago

Americans aren’t lining up to do these jobs at low wages, without proper worker protections. Creating a society that depends on a lower tier of people that have fewer rights is seriously fucked up and is not something we should be embracing.

Siding with the rich business owners who are taking advantage of illegal immigrants is extra weird.

[-] Trainguyrom@reddthat.com 3 points 9 hours ago

Industrial facilities, particularly in the food processing industry generally have decent wages and worker protections (safety does however vary wildly from plant to plant) but still rely on immigrant labor because those are often the only people willing to work these jobs, so they end up being the only workplaces that cater to hiring immigrants by having the knowledge of how to legally hire a non-citizen or just having Spanish language documentation and translators on hand.

I know this because I currently manage some databases for a contract industrial cleaning company, so I've seen the hard data. It's not a challenge of pay and benefits, but a challenge of "who's willing to work third shift cleaning cow guts off of a factory floor for $20-25/hr in bumblefuck Kansas?" And the answer is simply people who don't have better options, and they're usually either immigrants or felons. The work itself sucks donkeyballs (and would literally if it's a plant processing donkey meat) so nobody wants to do it

[-] MintyFresh@lemmy.world 20 points 22 hours ago

Thank you. I've always thought it was fucked people used this line of argument. If we can't build our buildings and clear our own trash? We need an endless stream of low paid poorly treated brown folk to do all those troublesome chores? Seems kinda fucked to me

[-] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 2 points 12 hours ago

I’ve always thought it was fucked people used this line of argument.

Nobody is arguing that this is a good arrangement, they're just saying it's an arrangement that benefits (typically) conservative business owners who utilize undocumented immigrant labor. Which means mass deportations are probably just Trump pandering to his base and not something he would really do - although there's no guarantee of that.

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[-] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 113 points 1 day ago

The trade group considers foreign-born workers, regardless of legal status, “a vital and flexible source of labor”

oh yea, republicans will spend all day whining about "illegals" but not one nanosecond even talking about the CEOs who hire those illegals, giving them a reason to come here in the first place

[-] zeppo@lemmy.world 55 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I’ve made this observation for some time now. Isn’t funny how the industries which hire illegal immigrants are skewed conservative ownership-wise? Construction, roofing, agriculture, trucking, hotels. My belief is that in addition to exploiting division and fear, they want to keep these workers marginalized so they can take advantage of them. Being able to dodge OSHA, medical comp, minimum wage, payroll tax, and so on are all Republican dreams.

[-] DmMacniel@feddit.org 33 points 1 day ago

sounds a bit like slavery, don't you think?

[-] Hylactor@sopuli.xyz 24 points 1 day ago

Wait until you hear about the prison industrial complex.

[-] mr_robot2938@lemmy.world 15 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

I worked with a construction firm that hired undocumented Hispanic laborers. The owner wrapped the semi he used for hauling his offshore race boat in a gaudy Trump themed canvas for the 2016 election.

The dichotomy of man in two sentences.

[-] Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago

Trump. Trump hires illegals too while bitching about them

[-] Vandals_handle@lemmy.world 10 points 9 hours ago

I seem to remember (but am too lazy to look up) something about Trump using undocumented Polish laborers on a building project, providing no PPE, paid them sub-minimum wage, no overtime. Reported the laborers to INS so they would be deported to avoid getting sued.

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[-] rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works 6 points 19 hours ago

Home builders are greasy as shit but I didn't expect them to say the quiet part out loud.

[-] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 4 points 12 hours ago

I used to write project maintenance software for a home builder. Right before I left that gig, the company's owner got busted banging his son's wife. Just a little anecdote about a bit of loathsomeness I've never encountered anywhere else.

The profit margins on this business were just insane. Like, houses cost between $30 and $40 grand to build (with corners cut in all sorts of ridiculous ways) and sold for $125 to $150 grand.

[-] piccolo@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 hours ago

Man... id love to buy an overpriced house for $100k. Now their like $400k+

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[-] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 4 points 17 hours ago

his vows are no more meaningful than the clergy's vows of celibacy

[-] chaosCruiser@futurology.today 31 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

They did that in UK. Brexit worked out perfectly, and everyone lived happily ever after. Oh wait… Wrong story. It was a total dumpster fire and now labor shortage is crippling various industries.

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[-] hglman@lemmy.ml 0 points 9 hours ago

Yeah please don't toss out the underclass we all caush to have nice things.

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this post was submitted on 19 Oct 2024
572 points (97.8% liked)

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